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josephwjsmart
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PostSubject: Countering deep strike   Wed Jul 19 2017, 18:20

I am playing a small game tomorrow. I will playing a guy even newer to the game than I am. He is taking the primaris army from Dark Imperium box set. We MIGHT bolster his army with units in the store, store have given us permission. So he might get another unit of troops and a transport, or a dreadnaught, just don't know yet.

Main issue is when I last played him with a very small list his inceptors just wrecked my kabalite unit. Deep strike on his term, got 18 shots or something stupid and just trampled the unit.

How can I counter this?

This is probably a basic tactic question rather than Dark Eldar specific, but I am knew to WH40k, not just Dark Eldar, so general tactic info is really appreciated, thanks!
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amishprn86
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PostSubject: Re: Countering deep strike   Wed Jul 19 2017, 18:53

Are you playing with Vehicles? DE doesnt do footdar very well.

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PostSubject: Re: Countering deep strike   Wed Jul 19 2017, 18:56

I am obviously limited on what vehicles I can take because of points.

If we bolster his army a bit (I want to) then I will have a raider and a venom to use.

My other units are

20 kab models
Archon
Drazhar
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Reavers
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amishprn86
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PostSubject: Re: Countering deep strike   Wed Jul 19 2017, 18:57

Unless you LOVE the fluff and the model, Drazhar is a waste of point, you can take a Raider over him.

Kabals are extremely weak unless in vehicles or in cover.

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PostSubject: Re: Countering deep strike   Wed Jul 19 2017, 19:05

I am starting to realise this, I've played 2 games with Drazhar, but he's letting me down a bit, the +1 hit to incubi has only resulted in like 2 extra wounds over 2 games.

I'll keep him for now because he's helping me keep the batallion detachment as my 2nd HQ, but might switch out for something else soon, recommendations?

If I drop Drazhar for this game, how would you arrange things in to transport to best protect my units?
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PostSubject: Re: Countering deep strike   Wed Jul 19 2017, 19:07

what is your point level? 500pts, 750 pts?

Generally, dark eldar are (were) really strong at low point games, because of their cheap transport. Remove your scourges and reavers et get as many raiders as possible. Remove Drazhar, too. Take disintegrator cannons.
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PostSubject: Re: Countering deep strike   Wed Jul 19 2017, 19:09

Just take another Archon over him, he literally is pointless as of right now.

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PostSubject: Re: Countering deep strike   Wed Jul 19 2017, 19:11

dumpeal wrote:
what is your point level? 500pts, 750 pts?

Generally, dark eldar are (were) really strong at low point games, because of their cheap transport. Remove your scourges and reavers et get as many raiders as possible. Remove Drazhar, too. Take disintegrator cannons.

Really, dissies over DL? It will probably be about 500 points, maybe a bit more.

Would you keep the incubi in? I love them, they're ridiculous on a good day.

If you had 500 points to play with, what would your list be?
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Jimsolo
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PostSubject: Re: Countering deep strike   Wed Jul 19 2017, 19:12

Definitely at such a low points level, dissies over Dark Lance. Disintegrators are in a much better place this edition, imo.
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PostSubject: Re: Countering deep strike   Wed Jul 19 2017, 19:14

Its b.c 1 Dis cannon is better than 1 DL, 3 shots over 1 shot and sense there isnt many vehicles at low points you dont need the S8, over all its better at lower points.

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PostSubject: Re: Countering deep strike   Wed Jul 19 2017, 19:15

amishprn86 wrote:
Its b.c 1 Dis cannon is better than 1 DL, 3 shots over 1 shot and sense there isnt many vehicles at low points you dont need the S8, over all its better at lower points.

Yeah, just read my rules and realised that!

I will definitely run Dissies. I'll try to write a 500 point list and get feedback from you guys if that's okay?
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PostSubject: Re: Countering deep strike   Wed Jul 19 2017, 19:16

Sure.

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PostSubject: Re: Countering deep strike   Wed Jul 19 2017, 19:23

HQ- Archon,  Blaster, Argoniser

Troops - 5 Kabalites, all splinter rifles

Elites - 5x incubi, all klaivex

Fast Attack - 3 reavers

Transport - Rader, Dis Cannon

                Venom - Splinter Cannon, Twin Splinter Rifle

As you can probably tell, I am very new to writing lists!


493 Points
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dumpeal
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PostSubject: Re: Countering deep strike   Wed Jul 19 2017, 19:32

At higher point level, I use dark lances, because I have other cheap AT sources, but at lower point level, you need to be prepared against either vehicles or TEQ. Dissies offer both. And, generally, he won't have many vehicles, so dissies are fine.
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PostSubject: Re: Countering deep strike   Wed Jul 19 2017, 19:38

Looks fine for a 500pt list, GL and let us know how it goes.

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PostSubject: Re: Countering deep strike   Wed Jul 19 2017, 20:21

Is he using the points that came in the box, or the index? Because I heard the box rules have cheaper point costs, and the index points are more widely used.
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PostSubject: Re: Countering deep strike   Wed Jul 19 2017, 20:40

yukondal wrote:
Is he using the points that came in the box, or the index? Because I heard the box rules have cheaper point costs, and the index points are more widely used.

Not 100% certain, but last time I saw him he definitely had and index out, but it didn't look like the imperium: 1 index, it almost had a title or something?

But I don't think it was the small booklet that comes in the box.

How would you prepare differently for each scenario, just in case I have to change things around on the spot
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PostSubject: Re: Countering deep strike   Wed Jul 19 2017, 20:47

yukondal wrote:
Is he using the points that came in the box, or the index? Because I heard the box rules have cheaper point costs, and the index points are more widely used.

I thought the box only had PL and not points?

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PostSubject: Re: Countering deep strike   Wed Jul 19 2017, 21:06

I don't have the box set, but here's somebody hashing it out online: https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.reddit.com/r/Warhammer40k/comments/6ej080/psa_points_values_in_box_do_not_match_index/
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PostSubject: Re: Countering deep strike   Wed Jul 19 2017, 21:07

That is.... odd, i like to see a pic to make sure tho, like if they all have the same wargear.

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PostSubject: Re: Countering deep strike   Wed Jul 19 2017, 21:10

yukondal wrote:
I don't have the box set, but here's somebody hashing it out online: https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.reddit.com/r/Warhammer40k/comments/6ej080/psa_points_values_in_box_do_not_match_index/

Very weird! If it's a pull out in the box like the post describes, then he definitely has the index, because his points were in a proper book
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PostSubject: Re: Countering deep strike   Wed Jul 19 2017, 21:49

It sounds like you guys are just starting out and I'm sure he's not trying to cheat you or anything. Just something to keep an eye out for because it would change your game a lot. The Inceptors being the largest difference in points.
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PostSubject: Re: Countering deep strike   Wed Jul 19 2017, 22:24

This is not necessarily the answer for your particular situation, but deep strike in some ways, especially for Marines is more limited in 8th than 7th. The reason is that needing to deploy more than 9" away from enemy models is fairly easy to deny for large areas.

If you have units loosely spaced in your deployment zone with no spaces where you could drop a 9" radius circle then there is nowhere for the deep strikers to land except to the outside of your zone. Depending on how many units you have then you may be able to expand that area denial if you get to move first.

If you can deny an area, and the range of the deep strikers is short then you can position the units that are least vulnerable to the deep striking units to the outside and somewhat counter what they can do.

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josephwjsmart
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PostSubject: Re: Countering deep strike   Wed Jul 19 2017, 23:37

yukondal wrote:
It sounds like you guys are just starting out and I'm sure he's not trying to cheat you or anything. Just something to keep an eye out for because it would change your game a lot. The Inceptors being the largest difference in points.

Inceptors are what I struggled with most last time as well!

I am taking everything I have. (Apart from my ravager because it isn't built yet) and we can adapt and use store models to make his army a bit bigger.

We have the store to ourselves, no other tables booked, and the staff know we are both new, so they have said they'll give us loads of their time to help set us up and make sure it's fair, enjoyable and a good learning experience!
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PostSubject: Re: Countering deep strike   Wed Jul 19 2017, 23:53

Yeah, as long as you are having fun, that's the most important part. Smile
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