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 Sell me on Haemonculi Covens

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FrankyMcShanky
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PostSubject: Sell me on Haemonculi Covens   Sat Jul 15 2017, 18:15

Dark Eldar are my 2nd army, and I've really only gotten into the Kabal side of things, but the bastard stepbrother Coven side of the army seems pretty neat.  Tell me why you like Haemonculi Covens, both from a rules and fluff perspective.

How are Wracks treating you in 8th edition?  I think the models are cool but they seem a tad expensive.  Liquifier guns also seem a bit costly for what they do.  Have you had any luck fielding them?  Why do you take them and what do they tend to accomplish for you?

Grotesques seem reaaaally damn beefy with a Haemonculus backing them up.  They also look like a blast to convert.  How are they doing for you in 8th?  Are they worth the bajillion points?

Now the Chronos and Talos is where you lose me.  I don't get these units at all.  What exactly are they supposed to do and how exactly do you get them where they need to be to do it?
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Jimsolo
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PostSubject: Re: Sell me on Haemonculi Covens   Sat Jul 15 2017, 19:06

Wracks are great in this edition. They are resilient, fairly cheap, and their special weapons (the Ossefactor or the Hexrifle are my faves) no longer need to shoot at the same target, or at the target you intend to charge.

Grotesques took a beating, imo. They are almost the exact same as last edition, but since their claim to fame was being UNBELIEVABLY resilient, and everything else got MORE resilient under the new rules, they don't shine as bright as once they did.

Both units have a lack of AP that is disconcerting.

Their FNP-like ability stacks with the one from PFP, which is SUPER nice. The Toughness boosts from the haemonculi are also great. (Fun fact: those T boosts also affect Covens vehicles!)

The Cronos is just a buff engine. He runs up with foot units to provide a benefit bubble. He's got a little bit of CC strength, too. The Talos is very strong in CC, but is a tad slow (you just need to run him on foot until he gets where he's going, unfortunately).

I'm a veteran Covens fan, and I think they are a little better in this edition.
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CptMetal
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PostSubject: Re: Sell me on Haemonculi Covens   Sat Jul 15 2017, 19:56

The Talos is strong in close combat?
I've Only seen people complain about it because it doesn't lack armor anymore.
So They are still viable? Would be nice. I got three.

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Logan Frost
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PostSubject: Re: Sell me on Haemonculi Covens   Sat Jul 15 2017, 20:22

With his basic setup the Talos has 6 S6 AP-1 attacks.
By the time he gets in cc he hits on 2 and and if you have a cronos nearby, which you should, he rerolls to wound.
So, he lost some AP, but he hits more, he hits better and he hits harder.
Still playable to me.
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Jimsolo
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PostSubject: Re: Sell me on Haemonculi Covens   Sat Jul 15 2017, 20:35

@CptMetal wrote:
The Talos is strong in close combat?
I've Only seen people complain about it because it doesn't lack armor anymore.
So They are still viable? Would be nice. I got three.

I have ten. Sad
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Salen
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PostSubject: Re: Sell me on Haemonculi Covens   Sat Jul 15 2017, 20:48

@Jimsolo wrote:
Their FNP-like ability stacks with the one from PFP, which is SUPER nice.  The Toughness boosts from the haemonculi are also great.  (Fun fact: those T boosts also affect Covens vehicles!)

Coven have another FNP ability not from the PFP? Did I miss something?
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The Strange Dark One
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PostSubject: Re: Sell me on Haemonculi Covens   Sat Jul 15 2017, 21:21

For me the Haemonculus is the primary reason to have some Coven in my list. He got good stats, an amazing aura and with the Electrocorrosive Whip he is a beast. He is easily our best HQ choice.

I love it that S4 (read Bolters) only hits him and his Wracks on on 5+ and even lascannons "only" wound on a 4+.

I think the Talos is overpriced, but the Grotesques could potentially be one of our best answers to GEQ spam. Stick them to a haemy to get T6 and munch them in CQC.

In comparison to the Haemy, the Archon an overpriced tank and the Succubus is a good MEQ killer that only buffs our terrible Cult units.


@CptMetal wrote:
The Talos is strong in close combat?
I've Only seen people complain about it because it doesn't lack armor anymore.
So They are still viable? Would be nice. I got three.

The lack of AP kills it for me. I see it as a unit that brings nothing to the table that another units couldn't do better.

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ecam
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PostSubject: Re: Sell me on Haemonculi Covens   Sat Jul 15 2017, 21:58

@Salen wrote:
@Jimsolo wrote:
Their FNP-like ability stacks with the one from PFP, which is SUPER nice.  The Toughness boosts from the haemonculi are also great.  (Fun fact: those T boosts also affect Covens vehicles!)

Coven have another FNP ability not from the PFP? Did I miss something?
Think I am missing something as well as I can't seem to find a FNP for my coven
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CptMetal
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PostSubject: Re: Sell me on Haemonculi Covens   Sat Jul 15 2017, 22:15

I guess he's talking about the 5++ invulnerable save.

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Barrywise
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PostSubject: Re: Sell me on Haemonculi Covens   Sat Jul 15 2017, 22:54

Yeah that's what I'm thinking he meant. Which since it's a save and not the feel no pain 6+, you take it before the damage is resolved right? so you'd roll for it after a lascannon hits and wounds but before damage right? so it'd be a single 5+ save. and if it gets through after that it'd be a 6+ for each wounds caused by the d6 damage?

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FrankyMcShanky
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PostSubject: Re: Sell me on Haemonculi Covens   Sat Jul 15 2017, 22:57

@Barrywise wrote:
Yeah that's what I'm thinking he meant. Which since it's a save and not the feel no pain 6+, you take it before the damage is resolved right? so you'd roll for it after a lascannon hits and wounds but before damage right? so it'd be a single 5+ save. and if it gets through after that it'd be a 6+ for each wounds caused by the d6 damage?

Yes.
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Britishgrotesque
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PostSubject: Re: Sell me on Haemonculi Covens   Sat Jul 15 2017, 23:08

I've only used my Talos in smaller games so far, but I think he does well for chewing up infantry, and he has killed a couple of characters for me.

The thing Covens seem to lack is anti tank, so they need support from ravagers/scourge/fliers to be more well rounded.
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Jimsolo
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PostSubject: Re: Sell me on Haemonculi Covens   Sat Jul 15 2017, 23:29

@FrankyMcShanky wrote:
@Barrywise wrote:
Yeah that's what I'm thinking he meant. Which since it's a save and not the feel no pain 6+, you take it before the damage is resolved right? so you'd roll for it after a lascannon hits and wounds but before damage right? so it'd be a single 5+ save. and if it gets through after that it'd be a 6+ for each wounds caused by the d6 damage?

Yes.

Indeed. But you get that in addition to FNP from PFP, is what I meant.
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Salen
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PostSubject: Re: Sell me on Haemonculi Covens   Sun Jul 16 2017, 13:35

Best use of Wracks? I've once play game on "Cities of Death" rules. Put 4x5 Wracks with Ossefactor and Hexrifle + Haemonculus with Hexrifle in Ruins with Medicae Facility upgrade Very Happy then troll your opponent with them hunting his characters or killing things - high advantage so no cover for all below. Your Wracks are in Cover (+2 Sv) T5 with 5+ inv, 6+ PFP AND 6+ Medicae Facility save Very Happy
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CptMetal
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PostSubject: Re: Sell me on Haemonculi Covens   Sun Jul 16 2017, 13:53

+2 Cover save is wasted on them. You can´t take a 5+ armour and 5++ invulnerable save at the same time.

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Salen
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PostSubject: Re: Sell me on Haemonculi Covens   Sun Jul 16 2017, 14:05

@CptMetal wrote:
+2 Cover save is wasted on them. You can´t take a 5+ armour and 5++ invulnerable save at the same time.

It's obvious, so vs something with no AP you have Sv 4+, and all other 5+ Wink
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CptMetal
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PostSubject: Re: Sell me on Haemonculi Covens   Sun Jul 16 2017, 14:27

right. I forgot they had a 6+ Armour save.

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Painjunky
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PostSubject: Re: Sell me on Haemonculi Covens   Mon Jul 17 2017, 09:01

My exp...

Heams are really good. Nice bubble, tough and good in CC with the mandatory electro whip.
Wracks are great for the same reasons, mandatory electro whip on the Acothyst. I'm not yet sold on the expensive and random gunz.
Talos are cool. A unit of 2 talos can walk through a ton of bullets, charge T2 and dump a load of quality 2D attacks in CC.
Talos love the PFP table and don't degrade from damage either.
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Bedlam55
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PostSubject: Re: Sell me on Haemonculi Covens   Thu Jul 20 2017, 13:11

Haemonculi Covens are great my only thing is the lack of "anti-tank" weapons.


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