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 PGL? Why?

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PlayableNPC
Slave
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PostSubject: PGL? Why?   Fri Jul 14 2017, 00:20

I've never fielded PGLs on anything unless I had points to spare, in previous editions. The few times I did I totally forgot I had them. That being said what do you guys think about them in 8th.

I know they were useful when running a freakshow list last edition but in 8th? I can see how they could be useful due to the killing spree of Morale Phase. Maybe that's where they shine? I'd love to hear your thoughts and ideas on how to run PGLs.
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lcfr
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PostSubject: Re: PGL? Why?   Fri Jul 14 2017, 01:01

For 3pts it can often provide you a far better chance at causing an additional wound than firing your Splinter Rifle, so for me it's a pretty easy pick for Kabalites that are basically Venom taxes.
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Tzelok
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PostSubject: Re: PGL? Why?   Fri Jul 14 2017, 01:02

I run them everywhere points permit - I find them very useful:
1. They cost so little that they help me fill the little points gaps that are often left over
2. So long as the model's primary shooting attack isn't a pistol, they are fired IN ADDITION to their normal gun
3. The -1 LD has been VERY useful in ensuring that a heavily wounded squad takes more losses (or is broken entirely)
4. It's great for trying to plink off the last wounds on ANYTHING (monsters, infantry, vehicles) as you're wounding on a 6+ no matter what
5. It synergizes very well with units in Venoms and units with blasters given the 18" range
6. For maximum effect, shoot with them last where you can, and choose targets that have taken casualties that turn to maximize the impact of the morale tests

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FrankyMcShanky
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PostSubject: Re: PGL? Why?   Fri Jul 14 2017, 01:36

@Tzelok wrote:

6. For maximum effect, shoot with them last where you can, and choose targets that have taken casualties that turn to maximize the impact of the morale tests

You have to declare all your shooting from a unit before you make any rolls so I can't really see how you can accomplish this unless you just hold back units with PGL's until last.
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Tzelok
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PostSubject: Re: PGL? Why?   Fri Jul 14 2017, 01:39

Sorry, re-reading what I said it is unclear what I meant - but you are correct, I meant holding back units with PGL until the end.

For example, my unit in a venom has a PGL, shoot the venom (and all other units in my army that will shoot at the same target) first, then shoot with the PGL unit.

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FrankyMcShanky
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PostSubject: Re: PGL? Why?   Fri Jul 14 2017, 01:48

@Tzelok wrote:
For example, my unit in a venom has a PGL, shoot the venom (and all other units in my army that will shoot at the same target) first, then shoot with the PGL unit.

I've been wondering on the rules for this scenario. Does a transport and its riders count as one or two units for the purposes of shooting? I just shoot from both the transport and the unit inside it at the same time to be as perfectly fair and clear to my opponent as possible.
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lcfr
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PostSubject: Re: PGL? Why?   Fri Jul 14 2017, 02:23

@Tzelok wrote:

2. So long as the model's primary shooting attack isn't a pistol, they are fired IN ADDITION to their normal gun

Is this so? I thought the rules for Grenades was that they could only be fired INSTEAD OF any other weapon
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FrankyMcShanky
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PostSubject: Re: PGL? Why?   Fri Jul 14 2017, 02:35

@lcfr wrote:
@Tzelok wrote:

2. So long as the model's primary shooting attack isn't a pistol, they are fired IN ADDITION to their normal gun

Is this so? I thought the rules for Grenades was that they could only be fired INSTEAD OF any other weapon

You're right. But the PGL isn't a grenade weapon. It's an assault 3 weapon.
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PFI
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PostSubject: Re: PGL? Why?   Fri Jul 14 2017, 02:37

The PGL has grenade in its name but isn't itself a grenade. Its assault d3
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lcfr
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PostSubject: Re: PGL? Why?   Fri Jul 14 2017, 02:37

MIND. BLOWN.
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Jimsolo
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PostSubject: Re: PGL? Why?   Fri Jul 14 2017, 04:11

@lcfr wrote:
@Tzelok wrote:

2. So long as the model's primary shooting attack isn't a pistol, they are fired IN ADDITION to their normal gun

Is this so? I thought the rules for Grenades was that they could only be fired INSTEAD OF any other weapon

If a single model has more than one weapon, they're allowed to fire both (provided one isn't a pistol)?
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PlayableNPC
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PostSubject: Re: PGL? Why?   Fri Jul 14 2017, 05:04

@Jimsolo wrote:
@lcfr wrote:
@Tzelok wrote:

2. So long as the model's primary shooting attack isn't a pistol, they are fired IN ADDITION to their normal gun

Is this so? I thought the rules for Grenades was that they could only be fired INSTEAD OF any other weapon

If a single model has more than one weapon, they're allowed to fire both (provided one isn't a pistol)?

Yup! Smile I don't have my rule book on hand but quickly reading through Shooting on the GW blog states "When you select a unit to shoot, much like today, they can all fire their weapons at the enemy. "

I believe that does not include pistols, again don't have my BRB in front of me but yeah I'm almost positive you can shoot them all.


Thanks for all the input on the PGLs yall. I have a game coming up next week. I'll give them a shot in my next list.
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Ikol
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PostSubject: Re: PGL? Why?   Fri Jul 14 2017, 16:18

When a model shoots, you can choose to a) fire as many of its non-pistol weapons as you want. Or b) fire as many of its pistol weapons as you want. Or c) foresake all other shooting and throw a grenade.

If you have a sybarite carrying Splinter Rifle and Phantasm Grenade Launcher, you may fire both. Rapid Fire1=/=Pistol. Assault D3=/=Pistol. Therefore option a.

If you have a Sybarite carrying Splinter/Blast Pistol and Phantasm Grenade Launcher, you must pick whether you fire Pistols or non-Pistols this phase. Therefore option b.

In either case, the Sybarite may instead choose c, and throw a "darklight(plasma) grenade".

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Mppqlmd
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PostSubject: Re: PGL? Why?   Fri Jul 14 2017, 17:10

@Ikol wrote:

In either case, the Sybarite may instead choose c, and throw a "darklight(plasma) grenade".
Kabalite warriors don't have grenades Crying or Very sad
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Archon_91
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PostSubject: Re: PGL? Why?   Fri Jul 14 2017, 23:02

I'm glad they renamed our "plasma grenades" to " Darklight grenades" but at the same time ... All of our Darklight is ap-3 ... Why isn't the Darklight grenade also ap-3? But as for the PGL to be honest my experience with them is they have killed a lot in both the shooting and moral phase, I was actually considering marking up the hekatrii base that did this with a "PGL kill count" as in one game her PGL killed 5 bikes (2 from shooting and 3 from morale) took the last wound off a land speeder (had nothing else to shoot at and figured why not) and took 2 wounds off a flyer that I forget the name of (again nothing else to shoot at) I completely acknowledge that my rolls we're stupidly good and my opponents stupidly bad but we both had a ton of fun making up a narrative as to how the PGL did the damage, story with the bikes went "The first one hit the Marine full in the face and caused him to hallucinate that he was about to run into a daemon prince so he swerved and crashed into the second bike, the ones that ran away in the morale phase didn't "run away" but strapped the crashed bikes to some chains and dragged them back to base with the riders for repairs. The land speeder pilot thought his speeder had become possessed by an evil machine spirit and shot the control panel full of bolter rounds from his bolt pistol, before realizing the passenger was punching his helmet asking him what the hell he was doing. As for the flyer the grenades flew into the left engine intake causing it to choke and blow (the wounds caused it to go down to it's final grade of effectiveness) thus crippling it ... All in all I find them hilarious to use as they have the chance to do stuff like this.
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Frederick Vael
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PostSubject: Re: PGL? Why?   Fri Jul 14 2017, 23:29

@lcfr wrote:
Kabalites that are basically Venom taxes.

Venom taxes? You know you can take a venom for every single unit you field in your army, right? There are no "tax unit" anymore.
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lcfr
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PostSubject: Re: PGL? Why?   Fri Jul 14 2017, 23:49

[quote="Frederick Vael"]
@lcfr wrote:

Venom taxes? You know you can take a venom for every single unit you field in your army, right? There are no "tax unit" anymore.

Definitely! 'Taxes' is a cruel way to put it, that was unkind to Kabalites.

I just find I'm getting a good mix of lots of Venom and high value units (for their cost) that can capture objectives by using Kabalites. More expensive units means less points for vehicles, other things being equal
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Cerve
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PostSubject: Re: PGL? Why?   Sat Jul 15 2017, 11:58

All those points for 1 casualty...mmm nope. Not for me
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PostSubject: Re: PGL? Why?   Sun Jul 16 2017, 09:26

At 2000 pts I take 4 PGL...

If 4 D3 S1 shots per turn + the -1 Ld till the end of the turn for each unit hit = 1 tac muhreen killed the PGLs will have earned their pts.

Note: the 4 PGLs will kill ALOT more than 1 tac muhreen during the game. Very Happy
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PostSubject: Re: PGL? Why?   Sun Jul 16 2017, 14:30

I'll give them a go for my next game and let y'all know
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SarisKhan
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PostSubject: Re: PGL? Why?   Sun Jul 16 2017, 14:52

I'm gonna use 3 PGLs on the upcoming tournament. Had some points to spare so might as well give them a try.
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PostSubject: Re: PGL? Why?   Tue Jul 18 2017, 02:35

Played last night. PGL didn't do much. Though I was going against 2x 30 ork mobs. So, yeah. Does PGL stack? Like if the sybrite AND archon both successfully hit would that be -2 Ld?
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Jimsolo
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PostSubject: Re: PGL? Why?   Tue Jul 18 2017, 03:09

It does not.
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Tzelok
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PostSubject: Re: PGL? Why?   Tue Jul 18 2017, 05:11

I played 1k vs nids the other day, I had 9pts in PGL's and they knocked off a wound on a hive tyrant, an exocrine, and a couple on a ripper storm. They're not game changing, but what else are you gonna get for 9 points?

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PostSubject: Re: PGL? Why?   Tue Jul 18 2017, 07:59

I'm surprised that's even debatable whether a 3 point wargear piece that can remove an extra model regardless of saves / fnp / multiple wounds or whatnot is a good investment or not...
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