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Hellstrom
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PostSubject: Impassible terrain?   Tue Jul 11 2017, 19:20

What's to stop me from deploying Illic Nightspear (or similar) on top of a 20" tall building? No restrictions in 8th right? Noone would be able to assault him?
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tonytastey
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PostSubject: Re: Impassible terrain?   Tue Jul 11 2017, 19:22

Anyone with the Fly keyword should be able to assault him.
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SleepyPillow
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PostSubject: Re: Impassible terrain?   Tue Jul 11 2017, 19:24

The social contract or a slap I guess?

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aurynn
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PostSubject: Re: Impassible terrain?   Tue Jul 11 2017, 19:44

Well as per RAW, there is no impassable terrain in the rules anymore. The only mention of this is in the Scratch-built terrain on page 251. Which says that impassability has to be agreed before the battle. If it is not agreed, the terrain is passable under normal rules for terrain, meaning that even infantry can climb and assault anyone on a tall rock.
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Myrvn
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PostSubject: Re: Impassible terrain?   Tue Jul 11 2017, 20:49

It looks like the Stepping Into A New Edition quasi-FAQ allows models to climb very tall structures incrementally. A Wych could move 8"+d6" up the sheer surface and just out some dice or something to show where the model is. Models don't need to make it all the way to the top in a single turn.
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Squidmaster
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PostSubject: Re: Impassible terrain?   Wed Jul 12 2017, 09:23

The thing is, if the platofmr Illic is standing on only has space for one base, then he can't be assault. Unless you can physically get another base within 1" of Illic's, he's safe from close combat.

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aurynn
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PostSubject: Re: Impassible terrain?   Wed Jul 12 2017, 12:18

Ofcourse he can be assaulted. Wobbly model syndrome. Placing a model is not a prerequisite of succesful charge.


Last edited by aurynn on Wed Jul 12 2017, 13:37; edited 1 time in total
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Quauchtemoc
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PostSubject: Re: Impassible terrain?   Wed Jul 12 2017, 13:05

Well the real question is : you really often play with 20" tall building with no floors in the middle ?
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Ikol
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PostSubject: Re: Impassible terrain?   Wed Jul 12 2017, 13:28

City blocks are fun... there are two buildings my friends and I have without balconies. Both are excess of 18" tall. That's fine though, because all the buildings around them are the same heuight and have platforms/floors/balconies.

Verticality is an awesome mechanic, and it was even more awesome with vehicle firing arcs.

I remember spending a game of 7th with a list of Footdar leaping across rooftops to charge embattled guard squads whilst all of the guard Tanks where stuck on the floor, unable to shoot at the roofbound squads due to the "may aim up 45 degrees" rule the mounted guns had.

Other fun things include a Land Raider being unable to target an Imperial Titan over the top of the building because the angle was too steep for the guns.

Verticality for the win!

Also: Illic is kind'a meh for his points. Good against Guard and other character reliant lists with low-wound-count leaders, but pretty suckish against other Eldar, Marines or Crons.

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Count Adhemar
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PostSubject: Re: Impassible terrain?   Wed Jul 12 2017, 13:34

Ikol wrote:
Also: Illic is kind'a meh for his points.  Good against Guard and other character reliant lists with low-wound-count leaders, but pretty suckish against other Eldar, Marines or Crons.

I disagree. For his points I would take him against pretty much any character-reliant army. Hitting on 2+, wounding on 2+, -3 AP and D3 damage plus possible mortal wounds is excellent for sniping out characters. Make him Ynnari and put a squad of Rangers and a Warlock or two beside him to cast Conceal and Reveal and trigger SfD and I'd say he's pretty solid.

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Squidmaster
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PostSubject: Re: Impassible terrain?   Wed Jul 12 2017, 14:59

aurynn wrote:
Ofcourse he can be assaulted. Wobbly model syndrome. Placing a model is not a prerequisite of succesful charge.


Pretty sure WMS Model only applies when the model would be in a precarious place. if there is absolutely no room for the model to be placed in any way, it can't be placed. Otherwise I could easily argue WMS for a model just floating 3ft off the ground.

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Count Adhemar
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PostSubject: Re: Impassible terrain?   Wed Jul 12 2017, 15:12

Squidmaster wrote:
aurynn wrote:
Ofcourse he can be assaulted. Wobbly model syndrome. Placing a model is not a prerequisite of succesful charge.


Pretty sure WMS Model only applies when the model would be in a precarious place. if there is absolutely no room for the model to be placed in any way, it can't be placed. Otherwise I could easily argue WMS for a model just floating 3ft off the ground.

You could argue that if there is any amount of terrain protruding from under the targets base then your model could be placed on it. It would however be precarious and WMS kicks in. So unless the target is standing on a piece of terrain that is exactly the same size as its base then an assault could be allowed.

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Barrywise
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PostSubject: Re: Impassible terrain?   Wed Jul 12 2017, 15:27

So then I have to ask. Movement is measured vertically now too. So if you have a model that is on the ground. And a model 20" in the air. With a >1" horizontal difference, they're still more than 1" away right? As others mentioned this gives flying units a slight degree of safety away from ground bound units. And what if you move your flyer or unit halfway down the building on the other side? Do they have to go up and over to chase you? Do they have to spend a turn moving back down the building? And then try to get to the other side?

If so, that might be one of our greatest strengths in the new rules. Having flying transports, especially venoms, that can't be charged because of verticallity. But are still within 18" horizontal range might be really strong.
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aurynn
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PostSubject: Re: Impassible terrain?   Wed Jul 12 2017, 15:57

I believe you misunderstand the wobbly model syndrome rule.
Example:

A terrain piece - 18'' high cylinder. A model with movement of 10 stands at the base and wants to go up. T1 its player declares that the model goes up. It is then considered that the model is now 10'' high in the air for all intents and purposes. T2 it can be placed on top.

The only issue I can see is that Hover rule. Which actually says that if the hull is 1'' above the ground it cannot be technically charged. But I'd be damned if I tried to pull something like that on my opponent.

Overall - I'd just stop thinking about how to gain advantage through terrain shenanigans and holes in the rules like that and concentrate on the real tactics and strategies. Srsly... 20'' terrain? I doubt we ever used anything more than 10''.
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Barrywise
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PostSubject: Re: Impassible terrain?   Wed Jul 12 2017, 19:07

No, I understood the wobbly model syndrome.

I think you're underestimating how powerful a tool it is for our army to ignore verticality. Agree to disagree.

Another question then, probably add this to the needs an FAQ list. How does that ruling affect Deepstriking? Can I set my Scourges 9" vertically away but because of Fly it's only 1" for them?

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aurynn
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PostSubject: Re: Impassible terrain?   Wed Jul 12 2017, 19:41

Well then I said it wrong.
- I did not mean that you in particular dont understand WMS. I took several posts in at once and thought that it was not clear.
- I totally agree that our ability to ignore verticality (in a sense) is VERY powerful.

As for the other question - yes, I believe that distance from base to base is the deciding factor.

EDIT: As for the charge - the distance is still there. Charge is not measured in horizontal distance. Ignoring terrain "as if it is not there" does not mean the scourges are not over 9'' away.
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PostSubject: Re: Impassible terrain?   Thu Jul 13 2017, 02:14

Or to back up aurynn in slightly different words:

Distances are measured between the models' bases (or hulls), not the horizontal distance only. So if you are 9" directly above another model, then you are 9" away, not 0" away.

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Barrywise
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PostSubject: Re: Impassible terrain?   Thu Jul 13 2017, 04:09

Right, I'm just saying that the scourges could get down to the ground without problem and would be in charge range while the enemy unit wouldnt.

How does this rule work on 45 degree angles?

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aurynn
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PostSubject: Re: Impassible terrain?   Thu Jul 13 2017, 06:51

Nope. Scourges HAVE to fly 9'' down. The unit at the bottom HAS TO charge 9'' up. The terrain is irrelevant. The distance matters.
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