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 Hemlock or Voidraven

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The Red King
Hekatrix
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PostSubject: Hemlock or Voidraven   Tue Jul 11 2017, 19:43

So I'm trying to decide whether I should bring the Voidraven bomber or a hemlock wraithfighter.

The difference in cost will cost me 2 blasters as well. So I'm trading 2d3+2 strength 8 ap-3 d3 damage shots. The missiles, the mine and the 5+ invuln for 2d3 strength 10 ap-3? Auto hits (at half the range), a 3+ save, fnp, a -1 leadership bubble and the psychic powers (either smite or conceal). Oh and the extra pivot for staying on the board.

I can't decide. I think the -2 to hit and fnp is more survivable than a 5+ invuln and -1 to hit. The auto hits and added maneuverability make up for the lost range and smite should outdmg the missiles.

It seems like an easy choice but I'm still torn and need to decide before I make a purchase. Please help.
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tonytastey
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PostSubject: Re: Hemlock or Voidraven   Tue Jul 11 2017, 20:21

I believe there's already some discussion about the Hemlock in a recent thread in the Tactics forum about Razorwing vs Voidraven: http://www.thedarkcity.net/t15631-voidraven-bomber-vs-razorwing-jetfighter-or-two-in-8ed-which-is-new-blacker-black

I've been weighing the same choice, and I think I'm gonna go with the Hemlock. Those Deny the Witch roles could end up being crucial in certain games, I love not having to roll to hit, and I hate vectoring around the board with only one 90 pivot per turn! Plus the Hemlock costs less money!
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aurynn
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PostSubject: Re: Hemlock or Voidraven   Tue Jul 11 2017, 20:23

It depends on the rest of your list ofc. Do you need LD bubble, psychic, have trouble maneuvering without double pivot?

Or do you need the bomb to soften an enemy in CC or cover? Rockets to add to your antihorde? Or Lances so you can take something else than a Ravager?

These two planes have different roles, decide what role you need - or better say, decide what plane will benefit your playstyle overall.
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The Red King
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PostSubject: Re: Hemlock or Voidraven   Tue Jul 11 2017, 21:37

The rest of the list is:

Tantalus

Yvraine
Visarch

Incubi×5
Incubi×5
Sslyth
Sslyth

Warriors×5 (with or without blaster depending on hemlock or not)
Warriors×5 (same)
Wyches×5
Wyches×5

2 razorwing w/lances
2 raiders w/lances
Voidraven/hemlock

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aurynn
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PostSubject: Re: Hemlock or Voidraven   Wed Jul 12 2017, 08:00

Easy then. Take Voidraven. Whenever one of your squads charges or gets charged by something nasty, you can help them by dropping a bomb onto the enemy's unit in CC and help them. Hemlock can't do anything in that regard.
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PostSubject: Re: Hemlock or Voidraven   Wed Jul 12 2017, 08:36

Well smite can hit units locked in combat and though it is usually less mortal wounds per cast, it's also repeatable.

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aurynn
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PostSubject: Re: Hemlock or Voidraven   Wed Jul 12 2017, 08:52

Will smite be decisive? Will it erase 66% of the enemy 1W unit or 33% of 2W unit?
Can Yvraine be everywhere? Will only 1 unit need help? Very Happy
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UlrikTheSlayer
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PostSubject: Re: Hemlock or Voidraven   Wed Jul 12 2017, 09:49

I would take Razorwing instead of both Smile. Hemlock needs to be near the ennemy to work well and has few attacks (okay mortal wounds) but its still 2D3...hits.
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aurynn
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PostSubject: Re: Hemlock or Voidraven   Wed Jul 12 2017, 10:10

He already has 2 RWJs. No need for a 3rd. It can add only so much (as any spam).
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The Red King
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PostSubject: Re: Hemlock or Voidraven   Wed Jul 12 2017, 12:59

If the mine wasn't once per game I may be swayed but smite will average as well over the course of the game (assuming you have a prime target for the mine) and has the potential to come out far ahead.

The variable for the mine is between 0-10 mortal wounds.

Smite is 0-30 mortal wounds.

I agree that smite is not as singularly decisive in the moment but I contend it will do more through out the game.

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mrmagoo
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PostSubject: Re: Hemlock or Voidraven   Wed Jul 12 2017, 17:47

You also have to watch the Void Raven. The Hemlock get 2 90 degree turns while the Voidraven only gets 1 at the start of the movement.

If you shoot across the board to get the bomb off it can leave you in a place the only place to go is off the board. Especially if your opponent is smart enough to block all your landing zones.

I say VoidRaven but that is just because I am a purest. Eldar are the scum of the universe. (JK) Movement is a big deal. I am still learning it myself. I have lost 2 Planes due to my opponent moving around to block my landing area and me putting the plane in such a place for them to be able to block me.
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PostSubject: Re: Hemlock or Voidraven   Wed Jul 12 2017, 23:59

I think the final selling point for me is the double pivot. I suppose the extra deny doesn't hurt.

And with everything else in my list Dark Eldar I kind of don't feel too bad lol. Besides what's more Dark Eldar than a ship that assaults the enemies minds with screaming souls.

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lcfr
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PostSubject: Re: Hemlock or Voidraven   Thu Jul 13 2017, 02:35

These flyers move 72" if they have to how can someone force you off the board unless you forgot about the limitation of your pivot ?

Not being a troll, just asking what I'm missing here so I can do the same to my opponents' flyers haha
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mrmagoo
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PostSubject: Re: Hemlock or Voidraven   Thu Jul 13 2017, 03:51

Well in the 2 incidents it happen to me. I moved to one short board edge. He lined up orks along the whole edge starting at 19inches away and lined the side. No place to put down.

Also if you get to a corner and you have to make a 90 to go one direction. If they get units at that 20 inch mark and out. No Place for you to go but off.

Trust me a smart player can figure it out. Its not the 72" you have to worry about. Its the 20 inch minimum that the issue.

I have learned from my mistakes which is why I am posting it here. Most of the time it can be avoided but a smart player might be able to figure something out to blow them up with firing a shot.

Remember, if they go off the board, there is no coming back.

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Kantalla
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PostSubject: Re: Hemlock or Voidraven   Thu Jul 13 2017, 04:22

Something I haven't been sure about that would make Flyers more vulnerable is whether they can displace models to rotate.

For example imagine a Flyer approaches to within 20" of your board edge and you assault it with Hellions, using pile in and consolidate to get right around it. If the Flyer is rotated before moving then it would displace the Hellions. Is the Flyer prohibited from rotating, so would have to fly off the board?

mrmagoo - you can rotate up to 90 degrees, so you could do less if you wanted, which would make it harder to get locked out of a possible move. Still possible with large horde forces like Orks though.

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mrmagoo
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PostSubject: Re: Hemlock or Voidraven   Thu Jul 13 2017, 04:26

Both mine were horde. So yes that is when it happens.

As far as rotating yes you can. It says at the start of the movement rotate 90 degrees. Then under fly is says they can move over models.during the move phase.

All ready ran into that argument as well.
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