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 Noob question: Are there any competitive reasons NOT to be Ynnari?

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tonytastey
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PostSubject: Noob question: Are there any competitive reasons NOT to be Ynnari?   Tue Jul 11 2017, 14:24

I'm just coming back to the game from 3rd edition and I noticed that you can now MIX Dark and Craftworld Eldar! WTF? It seems crazy strong.

I realize there are some restrictions (can't take Haemonculous Covens, etc.) but are we really losing much vs the ability to run most of the best units the Space Elves have to offer? Are Ancient Doom, PfP or Rising Crescendo better than Strength from Death?

I imagine we'll see better bonuses for being a single faction when the codices come out - but in the world of indexes, is Ynnari the best right now?

Please enlighten me Smile
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Count Adhemar
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PostSubject: Re: Noob question: Are there any competitive reasons NOT to be Ynnari?   Tue Jul 11 2017, 14:26

IMO PfP is better than SfD for our melee units and Rising Crescendo is, if not better, then certainly more reliable than SfD for Harlequins. No pressing reason to keep Battle Focus on CWE though as SfD is better.

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PostSubject: Re: Noob question: Are there any competitive reasons NOT to be Ynnari?   Tue Jul 11 2017, 14:27

1/ You can mix Dark and Craftworld WITHOUT USING YNNARI. As long as every unit in the Detachment is "Aeldari", it doesn't matter.

2/ My feeling is that individual Eldar rules are better than Strength From Death.
Power From pain is MUCH better, and I;d much rather keep the option for units like Talos, assisting them with Craftworld psychic potential.

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tonytastey
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PostSubject: Re: Noob question: Are there any competitive reasons NOT to be Ynnari?   Tue Jul 11 2017, 14:32

Oh wow I didn't realize you could just mix all Aeldari together! I thought that was a special thing Ynnari let you do.

So I've got a Dark Eldar only army - are there any Craftworld units that are no-brainer additions or does it always come at a cost to add them?
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PostSubject: Re: Noob question: Are there any competitive reasons NOT to be Ynnari?   Tue Jul 11 2017, 16:41

Most craftworld units are awesome. Fire warriors. All the farseers and psyker stuff. The Wraith constructs and of course their flyer that doesn´t need to roll to hit.

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Count Adhemar
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PostSubject: Re: Noob question: Are there any competitive reasons NOT to be Ynnari?   Tue Jul 11 2017, 16:54

On the plus side, I mostly no longer feel that I am handicapping myself by taking units from our codex rather than their craftworld equivalent.

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PostSubject: Re: Noob question: Are there any competitive reasons NOT to be Ynnari?   Tue Jul 11 2017, 16:57

With Eldar always do Ynnari

Harlequins, Rising Crescendo unless you have 0 bikes and only 2-3 units (like 2 Troupes and a Shadowseer only).

DE use PFP unless you doing Beastpacks with Specters as allies and Scourges etc.. If doing Wyches/Kabal Spam then for sure PFP

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tonytastey
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PostSubject: Re: Noob question: Are there any competitive reasons NOT to be Ynnari?   Tue Jul 11 2017, 17:02

God that Hemlock Wraithfighter is sexy. Costs less (money wise) than the Voidraven too! Love having access to psychic powers.
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PostSubject: Re: Noob question: Are there any competitive reasons NOT to be Ynnari?   Tue Jul 11 2017, 19:11

Personally I like SFD. Especially on specialist melee units (like Incubi).
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PostSubject: Re: Noob question: Are there any competitive reasons NOT to be Ynnari?   Tue Jul 11 2017, 19:26

SfD is a great ability, but it's not an addition to the model - it's a strategy, you have to build around it to maximize its potency. PfP and RC are great abilities on their own, but in right hands and build, chain triggers of SfD can win games easily and effectively.

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PostSubject: Re: Noob question: Are there any competitive reasons NOT to be Ynnari?   Tue Jul 11 2017, 19:45

mightydoughnut wrote:
SfD is a great ability, but it's not an addition to the model - it's a strategy, you have to build around it to maximize its potency. PfP and RC are great abilities on their own, but in right hands and build, chain triggers of SfD can win games easily and effectively.

Thats why i gave some simple examples as to when you take either.

They both are great, but both require your list to be using those rules.

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PostSubject: Re: Noob question: Are there any competitive reasons NOT to be Ynnari?   Tue Jul 11 2017, 20:26

Mandrakes are actually pretty solid takes and Ynnari forbid them flat-out. PfP is pretty darn solid on our melee troops, definitely easier to use and more reliable than SfD for normal armies.

Rising Crescendo is stupendously good on Harlequins and usually beats SfD.

And finally, Asuryani ranged infantry make way better use of SfD than ours do. We simply don't have anything equivalent to Dark Reapers or Fire Dragons. The best we'll ever get is "four extra Dark Lance shots", while they can waltz up with "ten Meltagun or Reaper Launcher shots". The shame is real.
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PostSubject: Re: Noob question: Are there any competitive reasons NOT to be Ynnari?   Wed Jul 12 2017, 11:51

IMO, SfD can be pretty solid on some DE units, if you build them in order to maximize it's potential.

The best usual example is with beasts, which have decent attack count.

"Unusual" units would be for me (un-tested yet) Scourges or Bloodbrides.
A 10 man squad of vanilla Scourges can unload 30 poison shots thanks to shardcarabines.
A 10 women squad of vanilla blood brides can unload ~30+ attacks in melee with the +1A drug.

This already seems a lot, but you can go up to 60 with SfD Soulburst.
edit : (and also you can add some splinter cannon to your scourges, more pewpew *-*)

I think this was worth mentionning :}

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Last edited by masamune on Wed Jul 12 2017, 13:01; edited 1 time in total
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Count Adhemar
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PostSubject: Re: Noob question: Are there any competitive reasons NOT to be Ynnari?   Wed Jul 12 2017, 12:01

Beasts don't benefit from SfD as they aren't infantry or bikes.

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PostSubject: Re: Noob question: Are there any competitive reasons NOT to be Ynnari?   Wed Jul 12 2017, 12:03

Since you can activate a unit to fight with SfD, you get a pile in and a consolidation move. Since you can activate a unit than isn't tied in combat, if that unit has charged that turn, you could do something like this :
- Your 10 incubi fail a charge against a very distance ennemy unit that has no overwatch
- Kill something in combat with anything else
- Activate PfD on the incubi, make them "fight" (they are eligible, since they charged that turn).
- Incubi can pile in AND consolidate, giving them a 6 inch move allowing them to engage that squad of [insert dangerous shooting unit] without overwatch.

Is this legit ?

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PostSubject: Re: Noob question: Are there any competitive reasons NOT to be Ynnari?   Wed Jul 12 2017, 13:21

The biggest benefit from SFD I see is mobility.

We already are one of the fastest if not the fastest faction around and SFD makes it even more absurd.

It essentially allows for jump-shoot-jump, if you pick your targets right.

Take, for example, a squad of reavers with +2 Movement Drug:

- move up to 18" to get whithin 7" of a suitably small or vulnerable enemy unit.
- kill the unit in the shooting phase
- move up to 18 + D6" back into safety or further up the board
- Charge another unit in the charge phase (if you didn't advance)

SFD grants a lot of tactical flexibility which should not be underestimated.
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PostSubject: Re: Noob question: Are there any competitive reasons NOT to be Ynnari?   Wed Jul 12 2017, 13:23

Sslyth wrote:
The biggest benefit from SFD I see is mobility.

I'm not agree the biggest benefit is clearly the shooting power


Last edited by Quauchtemoc on Wed Jul 12 2017, 13:31; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: Noob question: Are there any competitive reasons NOT to be Ynnari?   Wed Jul 12 2017, 13:23

Count Adhemar wrote:
Beasts don't benefit from SfD as they aren't infantry or bikes.

Taken in 1's they can Activate SFD for your other units.


Quauchtemoc wrote:
Sslyth wrote:
The biggest benefit from SFD I see is mobility.

I'm not agree the biggest nefit is clearly the shooting power

Agree

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Count Adhemar
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PostSubject: Re: Noob question: Are there any competitive reasons NOT to be Ynnari?   Wed Jul 12 2017, 13:28

amishprn86 wrote:
Count Adhemar wrote:
Beasts don't benefit from SfD as they aren't infantry or bikes.

Taken in 1's they can Activate SFD for your other units.

True, but their best quality is their durability so they aren't exactly easy to kill without wasting quite a lot of firepower. Is your opponent going to spend that amount of firepower on a single beast?

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PostSubject: Re: Noob question: Are there any competitive reasons NOT to be Ynnari?   Wed Jul 12 2017, 13:30

i've used them in 7 games so far as single units and the opponents are scared of them for sure (b.c they dont want me to get soulburst actions), due to that i've been able to shutdown tanks, force their movement to make them out position themselfs etc.. they be my MVP's.

I take 6 units of 1 birds (for the fly ability)

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PostSubject: Re: Noob question: Are there any competitive reasons NOT to be Ynnari?   Wed Jul 12 2017, 13:38

I do understand that an additional round of shooting power is a great boon, but I've found it to be somewhat situational in practice.

SFD requires a unit to be within 7" of the now dead unit, which is the first problem.
Secondly, we just don't have that great shooting Infantry/Bike units, as someone pointed out earlier.

So in your player turn you'd have to get the relevant shooty unit within 7" of the designated target to benefit from SFD in the first place.

I can see that working for Blasterborn in Transports and maybe big units of Reavers, but that's about it.

Anything carrying a dark lance will want to make use of that 36" range or get horribly murdered in your opponent's turn (again, except trueborn in transports).

Maybe I'm missing something here, so please take this with a grain of salt.
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Count Adhemar
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PostSubject: Re: Noob question: Are there any competitive reasons NOT to be Ynnari?   Wed Jul 12 2017, 13:41

Sslyth wrote:
I can see that working for Blasterborn in Transports

If they're in transports they can't use SfD

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PostSubject: Re: Noob question: Are there any competitive reasons NOT to be Ynnari?   Wed Jul 12 2017, 13:46

Count Adhemar wrote:
Sslyth wrote:
I can see that working for Blasterborn in Transports

If they're in transports they can't use SfD

Which makes it even harder to pull off ... but are we really sure they can't?
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PostSubject: Re: Noob question: Are there any competitive reasons NOT to be Ynnari?   Wed Jul 12 2017, 13:49

Sslyth wrote:
Count Adhemar wrote:
Sslyth wrote:
I can see that working for Blasterborn in Transports

If they're in transports they can't use SfD

Which makes it even harder to pull off ... but are we really sure they can't?

yup its not really efficient with DE shooting unit indeed. But i'm not sure PFP is better (for our shooting unit)
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PostSubject: Re: Noob question: Are there any competitive reasons NOT to be Ynnari?   Wed Jul 12 2017, 13:49

I dont play Pure DE Ynnari tho. I only take a few units from DE
Blaster Scourges, Blaster Trueborns, Beasts (1 man units to activate SfD for other units), Ravager, Raider, Succubus.

My troops are... Troupes lol, my other HQ's are Yisarch and Shadowseer, And i have a unit of Fire Dragons.


How to play DE Ynnari
DE Ynnari wants to be more of a Beta strike army, you want to take a turn or 2 to wither down a couple units and get into position to be able to activated 3+ SfD in 1 turn.

Pop a couple tanks, weaken the units inside, get some other units down a few models and then get out of the Vehicles and go to town!

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