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 Pure Drukhari Competitive 2000

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skryelocke
Slave
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Join date : 2017-06-01

PostSubject: Pure Drukhari Competitive 2000   Mon Jul 10 2017, 02:53

Hi All,

Back again with my heavily revised drukhari only competitive list!


Spearhead Detachment +1CP


HQ
Archon w Agoniser, Blaster, Phantasm Grenade Launcher 76

Heavy Support
Ravager 3x Dark Lance 155

Ravager 3x Dark Lance 155

Ravager 3x Dark Lance 155

Vanguard Detachment +1CP

HQ
Haemonculus w Crucible of Malediction, Electrocorrosive whip , Hexrifle 94

Elites
5x Kabalite Trueborn 3 w blaster upgrade 100

5x Kabalite Trueborn 3 w blaster upgrade 100

5x Kabalite Trueborn 3 w blaster upgrade 100

5x Kabalite Trueborn 3 w blaster upgrade 100


Dedicated Transport
Venom w 2x Splinter Cannon 95

Venom w 2x Splinter Cannon 95

Venom w 2x Splinter Cannon 95

Venom w 2x Splinter Cannon 95

Venom w Splinter Cannon & Twin Splinter Rifle 80


Air Wing Detachment +1CP

Razorwing Jetfighter 2x Disintegrator Cannons 175

Razorwing Jetfighter 2x Disintegrator Cannons 175

Razorwing Jetfighter 2x Dark Lances 155


Total: 2000

Basically look to have consistent mobile shooting threats spread out across the board. Load a lot of S8 weaponry spam into armor and high priority targets. If engaged everything sans the trueborn has the fly keyword to fall back and still shoot. Un-upgraded splinter cannon venom holds the archon. Haemonculus who will be taking character pot shots and supporting my venoms on foot with +1 T through the covens keyword.  My only concern is AI/hordes, gave 2 jet fighters disi cannons for better AI. This list should do pretty well vs tanks and mechanized armies. CC welcome, looking to make a good shooty all comers list.
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Lyceus
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PostSubject: Re: Pure Drukhari Competitive 2000   Mon Jul 10 2017, 08:44

Hi @skryelocke,

I like the list very much.

From what I have seen is that opponents priotize taking down flyers before ravagers, if you would spread the dissi cannons among the ravangers you should get more value out of them and be able to move them excactly where you need them.

My question since I am a returning player and have not played since some editions: How you keep up with the Haemonculus to make the 6 inch bubble effective, how many ships are you aiming to buff? Exploding vehicles is a concern coming to my mind if I would stack up my ships so close to each other.
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UlrikTheSlayer
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PostSubject: Re: Pure Drukhari Competitive 2000   Mon Jul 10 2017, 11:07

Usually you do not have more than 1 or 2 vehicules exploding a game. You can reroll that dice Smile. I also like throwing vehicule at my ennemies sometimes after i disembark.

This list lacks Melee defense...
It should be okay with the amount of shots you do and the resilience of Venoms. Still, I do not like the look of it, it will perform well.

5 venoms means 60 shots and add the kabalites it means 85 shots. I wonder if you could find the point go battalion. Having 7 Command points is better than only 5.

Also, I would go to an Ynarri on the big detachment (as with all the vehicules you have, you have absolutely no usage of Power from Pain, you could use the Soul burst with your Kabalites when they go out). Just swap the Archon and Haemonculus and you still provide the bonus to your venoms.
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dumpeal
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Location : Québec

PostSubject: Re: Pure Drukhari Competitive 2000   Mon Jul 10 2017, 12:45

Your list will be vulnerable to heavy troop-spam lists. You should add a little more poison shots.
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Trueborn44
Kabalite Warrior
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PostSubject: Re: Pure Drukhari Competitive 2000   Mon Jul 10 2017, 14:02

Following on from what @Dumpeal said, I would either add a lot more poison or add some kind of assault unit. I put you at about 30 conscripts killed per turn with everything in rapid fire range, which is respectable, but with the lack of any assault units you're going to have a bad time if another blob multi assaults your tanks. Not to say that you always want to be focusing on conscripts, but those stats stay the same against say an Orc green tide for example, because of how poison and dissies work against T3 and T4.
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skryelocke
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PostSubject: Re: Pure Drukhari Competitive 2000   Mon Jul 10 2017, 17:59

Lyceus wrote:
Hi @skryelocke,

I like the list very much.

From what I have seen is that opponents priotize taking down flyers before ravagers, if you would spread the dissi cannons among the ravangers you should get more value out of them and be able to move them excactly where you need them.

My question since I am a returning player and have not played since some editions: How you keep up with the Haemonculus to make the 6 inch bubble effective, how many ships are you aiming to buff? Exploding vehicles is a concern coming to my mind if I would stack up my ships so close to each other.

My plan was to move the base 7 and advance to keep it close to the venoms. utilizing the power from pain reroll on advance to get closer to the venoms. Although this might pose a problem with how I want my venoms to position. The threat is that if engaged in melee combat the opponent could bounce from 1 venom to another upon destroying one.

UlrikTheSlayer wrote:
Usually you do not have more than 1 or 2 vehicules exploding a game. You can reroll that dice Smile. I also like throwing vehicule at my ennemies sometimes after i disembark.

This list lacks Melee defense...
It should be okay with the amount of shots you do and the resilience of Venoms. Still, I do not like the look of it, it will perform well.

5 venoms means 60 shots and add the kabalites it means 85 shots. I wonder if you could find the point go battalion. Having 7 Command points is better than only 5.

Also, I would go to an Ynarri on the big detachment (as with all the vehicules you have, you have absolutely no usage of Power from Pain, you could use the Soul burst with your Kabalites when they go out). Just swap the Archon and Haemonculus and you still provide the bonus to your venoms.

dumpeal wrote:
Your list will be vulnerable to heavy troop-spam lists. You should add a little more poison shots.

Trueborn44 wrote:
Following on from what @Dumpeal said, I would either add a lot more poison or add some kind of assault unit. I put you at about 30 conscripts killed per turn with everything in rapid fire range, which is respectable, but with the lack of any assault units you're going to have a bad time if another blob multi assaults your tanks. Not to say that you always want to be focusing on conscripts, but those stats stay the same against say an Orc green tide for example, because of how poison and dissies work against T3 and T4.

I agree with these comments. The list lacks anti infantry and will be broken wide open without the poison firepower to thin the lines. With that in mind I have revised the list to include a bit more poison. Let me know what yall think.

Spearhead Detachment +1CP

HQ
Archon w Agoniser, Blaster, Phantasm Grenade Launcher 76

Heavy Support
Ravager 3x Dark Lance, Shock Prow 156

Ravager 3x Dark Lance 155

Ravager 3x Dark Lance 155

Vanguard Detachment +1CP
HQ
Archon w Agoniser, Blaster 73

Elites
5x Kabalite Trueborn 3 w blaster upgrade 100

5x Kabalite Trueborn 3 w blaster upgrade 100

5x Kabalite Trueborn 3 w blaster upgrade 100

5x Kabalite Trueborn 3 w blaster upgrade 100


Dedicated Transport
Venom w 2x Splinter Cannon 95

Venom w 2x Splinter Cannon 95

Venom w 2x Splinter Cannon 95

Venom w 2x Splinter Cannon 95

Venom w 2x Splinter Cannon 95


Air Wing Detachment +1CP

Razorwing Jetfighter 2x Dark Lances, Splinter Cannon 170

Razorwing Jetfighter 2x Dark Lances, Splinter Cannon 170

Razorwing Jetfighter 2x Dark Lances, Splinter Cannon 170


Total: 2000
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Trueborn44
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PostSubject: Re: Pure Drukhari Competitive 2000   Mon Jul 10 2017, 18:29

I actually put you at less conscripts killed with this list than the last, this is because you've traded 12 Dissie shots for 14 poison shots over all. You have a huge surplus of lances, you will absolutely brutalise any mechanised list with the amount of Darklight you have. To put it in perspective, you will do on average just under 36 wounds versus versus T7 3+ vehicles. That's insane and 23 and a third of those come from dark lances, so even without moving your Venoms up you will have a ridiculous amount of firepower. Look in to changing some of the Blaster Born to something more anti infantry based, preferably something that can counter assault well to cover for your boats. I know you will lose anti infantry fire from the Venoms if you swap them but I believe this can be made up over all. I would look in to Wracks if I was you. Also bare in my that at 12" a Venom cannon only gains you two shots versus the stock counterpart if you need more room wiggle room points wise. Even on the Razorwings they don't gain you much. That would give you another 120 points to play with if you removed them all.
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skryelocke
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PostSubject: Re: Pure Drukhari Competitive 2000   Mon Jul 10 2017, 18:51

Trueborn44 wrote:
I actually put you at less conscripts killed with this list than the last, this is because you've traded 12 Dissie shots for 14 poison shots over all. You have a huge surplus of lances, you will absolutely brutalise any mechanised list with the amount of Darklight you have. To put it in perspective, you will do on average just under  36 wounds versus versus T7 3+ vehicles. That's insane and 23 and a third of those come from dark lances, so even without moving your Venoms up you will have a ridiculous amount of firepower.  Look in to changing some of the Blaster Born to something more anti infantry based, preferably something that can counter assault well to cover for your boats. I know you will lose anti infantry fire from the Venoms if you swap them but I believe this can be made up over all. I would look in to Wracks if I was you. Also bare in my that at 12" a Venom cannon only gains you two shots versus the stock counterpart if you need more room wiggle room points wise. Even on the Razorwings they don't gain you much. That would give you another 120 points to play with if you removed them all.

The cannon upgrade also adds 12" to the base range making it 36", so at 18" it will gain the rapid fire. That being said, I won't know how justified it will be(the 36" max range or the 18" rapid fire) until the moment comes where I fight an infantry based list. By chance why wracks over anything else? I suppose looking at DE units that are resilient in CC that's one of the best things the index offers (Most other things are fast, hard hitting, and fragile as they should be). Do you have any experience with them?
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Trueborn44
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PostSubject: Re: Pure Drukhari Competitive 2000   Mon Jul 10 2017, 19:12

I have them currently in a 2000 point list that was similar to your massive amount of anti tank, but a lack of assault. You could quite easily swap out a unit or so of the Trueborn for them, as they add a good amount of anti horde through liquifiers and that. Just as an example, removing 2 units of BlasterBorn and adding two units of Wracks like this:

5 Wracks
- Electrocorrosive wip
- X2 Liquifier
-Venom
Total: 177

Adds about another 10 kills vs conscripts If they charge and fire liquifiers and also saves you 36 points. They're much better with a Haemonculus than without however, as T5 is a lot better than T4. Mostly my reasoning comes down to how easy it would be for you to change the units round as they have comparable points values, are still good in Venoms and add anti infantry to a list that lacks it. There are other options out there however. Wyches would be another good one and would require less rejigging and would have a similar damage output, but lack the staying power of the Wracks.

Even a reaver unit would be a good addition. Again, you could swap out 2 units of BlasterBorn for 2 units of 6 Reavers with Grav talons. That saves you 10 points, you lose 8 shots over the Venoms, but you will more than make up for it in CC. I would recommend +1 toughness and +1 attack. You could also add Agonisers to the units with the points saved. They can help to screen your gunboats from charges and put out a respectable amount of damage versus conscripts.

If both of those reaver units shoot and charge conscripts you gain about 12 anti infantry kills over your previous list.
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Lyceus
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PostSubject: Re: Pure Drukhari Competitive 2000   Mon Jul 10 2017, 22:01

I believe the only effective anti horde in our Drukhari index are Razorwing Flocks with a beastmaster to support them. Not in a ridiculous amount, just as many to block the meele force of your opponent you are expecting. Maybe the flocks will wipe them out, maybe not, but for sure they will screen your army so you can do whatever shooting you want.

And you can move freely onto objectives that are in meele range of your opponent without sacreficing one of your venoms.
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Trueborn44
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PostSubject: Re: Pure Drukhari Competitive 2000   Mon Jul 10 2017, 23:03

A 12 man unit supported by a beastmaster for the rerolls does about 12 wounds vs conscripts and costs about 140 points. The reaver unit with +1 toughness kills about 8 vs them and the +1 attack Reavers kill about 11. They cost about 190 though and it's true that adding more to the business end of the attacks from the flocks is very easy. You do get power from pain on the bikes which afterwards ups there kill count to about 9 for the +1 toughness guys. I have a feeling the Reavers also out perform them against Marine equivalent etc. As well. Also remember if the beast master gets sniped, the unit becomes nigh on useless. So if your opponent can target the beastmaster or can find a kink in your lines, you lose the unit essentially. Without the beastmaster, they die horrendously quickly to morale. They're definitely still a good shout however, especially if you can fit in more than a couple units.
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skryelocke
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PostSubject: Re: Pure Drukhari Competitive 2000   Mon Jul 10 2017, 23:13

Trueborn44 wrote:
I have them currently in a 2000 point list that was similar to your massive amount of anti tank, but a lack of assault. You could quite easily swap out a unit or so of the Trueborn for them, as they add a good amount of anti horde through liquifiers and that. Just as an example, removing 2 units of BlasterBorn and adding two units of Wracks like this:

5 Wracks
- Electrocorrosive wip
- X2 Liquifier
-Venom
Total: 177

Adds about another 10 kills vs conscripts If they charge and fire liquifiers and also saves you 36 points. They're much better with a Haemonculus than without however, as T5 is a lot better than T4. Mostly my reasoning comes down to how easy it would be for you to change the units round as they have comparable points values, are still good in Venoms and add anti infantry to a list that lacks it. There are other options out there however. Wyches would be another good one and would require less rejigging and would have a similar damage output, but lack the staying power of the Wracks.

Even a reaver unit would be a good addition. Again, you could swap out 2 units of BlasterBorn for 2 units of 6 Reavers with Grav talons. That saves you 10 points, you lose 8 shots over the Venoms, but you will more than make up for it in CC. I would recommend +1 toughness and +1 attack. You could also add Agonisers to the units with the points saved. They can help to screen your gunboats from charges and put out a respectable amount of damage versus conscripts.

If both of those reaver units shoot and charge conscripts you gain about 12 anti infantry kills over your previous list.

Alright with that in mind I gave it another go.

Spearhead Detachment +1CP
HQ
Archon w Agoniser, Blaster, Phantasm Grenade Launcher 76

Heavy Support
Ravager 3x Dark Lance 155

Ravager 3x Dark Lance 155

Ravager 3x Dark Lance 155

Patrol Detachment
HQ
Haemonculus w crucible, electrocorrosive whip, liquifier gun 96

Troops
5x Wracks electrocorrosive whip, 2x liquifier gun 88

5x Wracks electrocorrosive whip, 2x liquifier gun 88

Elites
5x Kabalite Trueborn 4 w blaster upgrade 115

5x Kabalite Trueborn 4 w blaster upgrade 115


Dedicated Transport
Venom w 2x Splinter Cannon 95

Venom w 2x Splinter Cannon 95

Venom w 2x Splinter Cannon 95

Venom w 2x Splinter Cannon 95

Venom w 2x Splinter Cannon 95


Air Wing Detachment +1CP

Razorwing Jetfighter 2x Dark Lances 155

Razorwing Jetfighter 2x Dark Lances 155

Razorwing Jetfighter 2x Dark Lances, Splinter Cannon 170

Total:1998

I'll draft a bike list variant next. My previous experience with them in 8th is that they are not worth their points.

Lyceus wrote:
I believe the only effective anti horde in our Drukhari index are Razorwing Flocks with a beastmaster to support them. Not in a ridiculous amount, just as many to block the meele force of your opponent you are expecting. Maybe the flocks will wipe them out, maybe not, but for sure they will screen your army so you can do whatever shooting you want.

And you can move freely onto objectives that are in meele range of your opponent without sacreficing one of your venoms.

I keep seeing razorwing flocks prevalent in many lists but don't own any sadly. I need something with potential combat effectiveness against both hordes and infantry based lists. May be worth a shot in TTS to play test a fair bit!
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Trueborn44
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PostSubject: Re: Pure Drukhari Competitive 2000   Mon Jul 10 2017, 23:29

Zombicide murder of crows box if you need lots of them on the cheap friend!
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Lyceus
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PostSubject: Re: Pure Drukhari Competitive 2000   Tue Jul 11 2017, 07:20

Eventually they must get nerfed and might become utter useless but that might take until the next codex.

Right?

For under 25$ you get 15. Personally I concider buying 30. You can fill an outrider detachment quite easily with them. It should be very doable to convert a hellion or two into beastmaster.
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Hellstrom
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PostSubject: Re: Pure Drukhari Competitive 2000   Tue Jul 11 2017, 16:58

Is the original list bad? Does it really need a CC shield? We can move so fast, I think I see the issue.
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Trueborn44
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PostSubject: Re: Pure Drukhari Competitive 2000   Tue Jul 11 2017, 19:13

You see the issue or you don't sorry? My point was that against mass infantry a list that is so committed to destroying vehicles and heavy infantry is going to struggle vs. Large amounts of infantry, especially any kind that wants to assault you. So adding a meat shield that can also help to take out some of the numbers on board and also protects your shooty boats is a good addition. If you look at the maths I had in my original post you'll maybe see why I was concerned with the lack of anti infantry. Not to say the original list particularly bad, but to make it as competitive as possible with a TAC mindset it's worth thinking about large infantry hordes and having something that helps. Against more shooty lists or elite army's having either hard to kill Troops for objectives, like Reavers or Wracks, or Razorwing flocks as a meatshield or lots of wounds and bases on objectives is still good.
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