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 Reaper better than a Ravager?

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sumguy777
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PostSubject: Reaper better than a Ravager?   Sun Jul 09 2017, 07:51

okay, so im still not over the tantalus because usually GW hates us, but is this not an upgrade to a Ravager?
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SarisKhan
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PostSubject: Re: Reaper better than a Ravager?   Sun Jul 09 2017, 08:03

Reaper's got +2 Wounds and a more versatile gun than a triple DL Ravager. However, said weapon is Heavy with no way to alleviate reduced accuracy on the move. I think it kinda balances out in the end but I'll need to try it out a few times.
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Mppqlmd
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PostSubject: Re: Reaper better than a Ravager?   Sun Jul 09 2017, 08:09

Definitly a good alternative. But the ravager is as good imo.
Why take a reaper :
- it looks cool
- it's slightly superior anti-tank
- 2 firing modes = adaptability
Why take a ravager :
- it looks cool
- it has 3 shots instead of D6 (some people, including me, like that).
- it can move and shoot (great against mobile ennemies that come to get you)
- Dissie Ravager is nuts this edition, and it has 36" range (correct me if wrong, but doesn't the reaper only have 24" on the AI shot ? While being heavy, that's a major drawback).

This comparison is a lot like DL scourges VS DL Ravager. In the end, it's up to you.

But against infantry, i think you can't compare 2d6 S6 AP- D1 with 9 S5 AP-3 D2 attacks. Albeit more expensive, Dissies are just too good.
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aurynn
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PostSubject: Re: Reaper better than a Ravager?   Sun Jul 09 2017, 08:34

Looks better on paper, but I like Ravager more. Reaper adds another layer of randomness to a game that is about mitigating dice flow.
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sumguy777
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PostSubject: Re: Reaper better than a Ravager?   Sun Jul 09 2017, 08:46

i missed the heavy part. i thought all our heavy weapons on vehicles changed to assault. It is still interesting. 2d6 at 150 points vs 9 at 185 points is about the same. its 36 and 24 depending on the mode. versatility is good though if anyone has tired it i would love to know how it worked for them
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Mppqlmd
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PostSubject: Re: Reaper better than a Ravager?   Sun Jul 09 2017, 08:55

Also, can ravagers split fire ? Or do all weapons of the same name on the name model fire at the same target ?
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aurynn
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PostSubject: Re: Reaper better than a Ravager?   Sun Jul 09 2017, 09:08

Sure they can.

Only Lances change to Assault. Thats why they are worth every point...
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Talos
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PostSubject: Re: Reaper better than a Ravager?   Sun Jul 09 2017, 18:42

Had a look at the reaper
But I really like that may ravagers can move and shoot
And Iam not to impressed with the vortex cannon compered do darklances.
Then again, my dark lancec are on their way to become notorious and one of the most hated weapon around here :p
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amishprn86
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PostSubject: Re: Reaper better than a Ravager?   Sun Jul 09 2017, 23:44

Reapers IMO are better IF you dont know what your fighting against at all.

It has at the same time a DL and Dis Cannons (you pick what you want to shoot with). So b.c it have more options the down side is that they are Heavy weapons.

I started to take 1 per game instead of 3 Ravagers or 2 Ravagers + Flier, i just replace a Ravager with the Reaper.

I only like them b.c of the options to shoot 2 different weapons.

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PFI
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PostSubject: Re: Reaper better than a Ravager?   Mon Jul 10 2017, 03:03

I like the reaper a lot more. It is just a better package in combat, in survivability and performance most of the times. If you roll 4 shots, then moving you are going to hit as much as a ravager and if you don't have to move then awesome. The only downside to the reaper is that its half resin. Resin and dark eldar don't mix well. I bought my tantalus years back and when i got it, it required a lot of work hiding the joints as they seemed to gapped in spots and the sail for the tantalus was basically skewed down the center so the two halves weren't aligned. That's the real downside of the reaper. One day forgeworld will make more for dark eldar but it'll be some time.
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amishprn86
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PostSubject: Re: Reaper better than a Ravager?   Mon Jul 10 2017, 12:06

I made my own from a 3rd ed, new Raider and a extra Pulse laser from Eldar

The sail is smaller on purpose for transporting reasons.


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colinsherlow
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PostSubject: Re: Reaper better than a Ravager?   Mon Jul 10 2017, 16:53

If you wright a list and can't decide if you need a little more AI or more AT take the Reaper. Or if you are a few points over your point limit change from a Ravager to a Reaper

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Askaron
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PostSubject: Re: Reaper better than a Ravager?   Wed Jul 12 2017, 03:45

I would go with the Ravager just for the movment bonus, I feel the game is very fluid now
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lcfr
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PostSubject: Re: Reaper better than a Ravager?   Wed Jul 12 2017, 03:49

Ravagers don't appear to have the <Haemonculus Coven> Keyword unless there's an Errata I missed
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Askaron
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PostSubject: Re: Reaper better than a Ravager?   Wed Jul 12 2017, 03:51

yeah edited post
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amishprn86
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PostSubject: Re: Reaper better than a Ravager?   Wed Jul 12 2017, 13:26

It has <Haemonculus Coven> keyword

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Count Adhemar
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PostSubject: Re: Reaper better than a Ravager?   Wed Jul 12 2017, 13:29

amishprn86 wrote:
It has <Haemonculus Coven> keyword

The Reaper does but the Ravager doesn't Sad

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PostSubject: Re: Reaper better than a Ravager?   Wed Jul 12 2017, 13:32

Count Adhemar wrote:
amishprn86 wrote:
It has <Haemonculus Coven> keyword

The Reaper does but the Ravager doesn't Sad

My bad i miss read what you meant... Yeah the Ravager doesnt. Sad

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Crisis_Vyper
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PostSubject: Re: Reaper better than a Ravager?   Sat Jul 15 2017, 18:48

Based on my experience so far with the Reaper, it feels like a more durable Ravagers, but instead it's gun functions like a Demolisher cannon but with the ability to turn into a more accurate but weaker squaf of Loota deffgun at the split of a dime if needed to.
Have to admit it is a very weird model to play with, but among all my models it is perhaps the best anti-aircraft platform that I have used so far. Have downed 4 ynnari crimson hunters in one 2500 pts game tofay with two Reapers ripping two of them apart on their first volley. They help the remaining Ravagers to kill the other ynari razorwing fighters with their alternate fire form later on despite their worsened BS due to my opponent realizing that they are rather retarded units that threated his air superiority.

They worked well. Too bad my Tantalus got destroyed by the focused firepower of all the planes before I could even use it for my first turn.


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PostSubject: Re: Reaper better than a Ravager?   Sat Jul 15 2017, 20:51

The Reaper is great. The average of a d6 is 3.5 - firing the Storm Vortex Cannon in beam mode is equivalent to dark lance so it's like you're getting half a dark lance for free with a free anti-infantry mode on top. Don't forget you can also use it to stop advances. It's also better in close combat which matters, I took one into CC 2 times last game.

Consider also if you roll a low number of shots you can use a CP to reroll this mimber which is hige for your alpha strike. This was also relevant last game for me and part of ehy I thought Reaper is good.

The -1 BS for moving is the only real downside..If you feel that makes the Ravager better, preference. I will keep fielding a mix but this is defintely a good unit.
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Mppqlmd
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PostSubject: Re: Reaper better than a Ravager?   Sat Jul 15 2017, 23:08

Lord Johan wrote:

The -1 BS for moving is the only real downside..If you feel that makes the Ravager better, preference. I will keep fielding a mix but this is defintely a good unit.
That... and 24" on the anti infantry shoots. 24" with a heavy weapon is a big no for me.
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Lord Johan
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PostSubject: Re: Reaper better than a Ravager?   Sun Jul 16 2017, 07:13

Mppqlmd wrote:
Lord Johan wrote:

The -1 BS for moving is the only real downside..If you feel that makes the Ravager better, preference. I will keep fielding a mix but this is defintely a good unit.
That... and 24" on the anti infantry shoots. 24" with a heavy weapon is a big no for me.

It never was an issue for me. But even if it were, consider that you wouldn't even have the option if this were a dark lance Ravager.

It is worse than 3x disintegrator, but you would pay extra for those and wouldn't have lances then. Disintegrator Ravager definitely has its own merits though and you can't equip a reaper this way so if you really need disintegrator cannons then you must bring a ravager



If you think about it it's even questionable if the -1 BS after moving matters that much for a beam mode Reaper vs a dark lances Ravager, since with -1 bs you're hitting 1/2 the time instead of 2/3 the time, and 0.5 * 3.5 = 1.75 while 2/3 * 3 = 2 so you are losing 0.25 lance hits when moving compared to a dark lances Ravager.

If you're committed to rerolling number of shots between 1-3 then I think the average number of shots for a Reaper in beam mode is 1/6*(4+5+6)+3/6*(3.5) = 4.25 lance shots.

But I personally have my reservations about bringing more than one or two Reapers at this time. Even though it seems mathematically sound on averages to use them instead of dark lance Ravagers. I want to keep the option to reroll any low numbers. Even though this is only worth 0.75 extra lance on average.
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aurynn
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PostSubject: Re: Reaper better than a Ravager?   Sun Jul 16 2017, 07:26

Math does not mean much in reality.
Moving Reaper has a lot bigger chance to fail you at a critical moment. Same issue as with moving DL Scourges.
The game is not played on averages.
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Lord Johan
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PostSubject: Re: Reaper better than a Ravager?   Sun Jul 16 2017, 07:41

aurynn wrote:
Math does not mean much in reality.
Moving Reaper has a lot bigger chance to fail you at a critical moment. Same issue as with moving DL Scourges.
The game is not played on averages.

It has but what the averages mean is that even if it feels that way when it happens, the chance specifically is not that big.

Half of the time you're firing more lances than the Ravager, in which case you're more likely to hit despite the -1 BS. 1/3 of the time you're firing fewer and then it's a double malus. 1/6 of the time you roll a 3 and then you have a Ravager with -1 BS if you moved.

You could argue it's better to take Ravagers to limit variance despite the lower average. No jackpots, no whiffs. It's a valid argument, probably down to preference. I would have more hesitations about d6 shots if 8e hadn't brought the ability to reroll a critical whiff. I typically build lists to maximize CP so using 1/turn to reroll Reaper number of shots if necessary is factored in.
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aurynn
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PostSubject: Re: Reaper better than a Ravager?   Sun Jul 16 2017, 09:12

Well given recent experiences of myself and according to the article on BOLS I think its not only mine perception - there is only one critical roll in the game - Seize the Initiative.

And well... yes I prefer surety over chance. Mitigating chance was always one of the most important steps towards winning for as long as I play W40K. And the more the variance of the weapon, the less likely it is to have reliable results.
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