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lcfr
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PostSubject: Disintegrators :(   Sat Jul 08 2017, 07:56

Am I alone in thinking there's very little reason to opt for Disintegrator Ravagers any longer? That extra 30pts just does not feel worthwhile!
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Massaen
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PostSubject: Re: Disintegrators :(   Sat Jul 08 2017, 08:20

Disintegrators are statistically very good choices.

3 shots vs 1
S5 vs S8
-3 vs -4
2D vs d6D

Against T4, the lance does around 0.55 wounds before saves while the dissie does 1.33. The lance is slightly ahead thanks to the better save mod and d6 damage but the dissie does consistent damage rather than a coin toss of pass or fail

T5 sees the lance do 0.44 vs the dissie do 1 before saves

T6/7 is 0.44 for the lance and 0.66 for the dissie

T8 is 0.33 for the lance and 0.66 for the dissie

T9 is 0.22 lance vs 0.66 dissie

In every situation the disintegrator is more reliable while the lance is more likely to ignore saves and tends towards higher damage when the odds fall in your favour.

Lances continue to be the gamblers gun. Dissies are play it safe

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Ghost
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PostSubject: Re: Disintegrators :(   Sat Jul 08 2017, 09:32

My local gaming group are disgusted by my dissie cannons (especially the Necron player). From my own experience they have done very well.

They can plink away at armour (in mass they can just delete it) and are strong vs any troops choice. They're just good all rounders I have found.

My lists consist of very limited or little Dark Lances but mass disintegrators and blasters have done well for me (currently unbeated).

All very anecdotal, but the mathhammer about it is in the post above.
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Kurdush
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PostSubject: Re: Disintegrators :(   Sat Jul 08 2017, 09:57

I can only repeat what have already been said. Lances are better against T6-T7 (especially if 3+ save), in other cases the Disintegrators are pretty much equal or better. Disintegrators also deal with infantry better, so it is more versatile. I'm not convinced that the cost difference should be 10 pts though, I would have it at 5 or less.
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Mppqlmd
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PostSubject: Re: Disintegrators :(   Sat Jul 08 2017, 11:11

The Dissies are disgustingly efficient against heavy infantry, 2 wounds infantry (so Jetbikes, TEQ, Lychguards, Motobikes, and the lack of AP is irrelevant since they usually got Invulnerable save), they almost completly negate the Quantum Shielding (which is hard to pass for a Dark Lance shot), it still outperforms the lance against most AV (but not enough to justify the price). The only situation that comes to my mind where a dissie would be less efficient than a DL is against a WaveSerpent, due to the -1 dmg shielding.
It was good in V7, but the new To Wound chart makes it even better.
But they are a 50% more expensive, and when you take many that's a lot of points.
So to answer your question, i don't really like Dissie Ravager since it's a lot of points on a single boat. But Dissie Raiders and Dissie Razorwing both have all my love Smile


As mass infantry is a thing you'll see a lot more now, i like to have at least 6 dissies (in 1500-2000) to help my kabalites wipe squads away. It's always funny when a Necron player sees that you can wipe a squad of 20 in a single turn, every turn, even tho he gives them 5+ invulnerable with Orykan.
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aurynn
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PostSubject: Re: Disintegrators :(   Sat Jul 08 2017, 12:49

I still think that an army of 9 dissie ravagers and 2 HQs can take on anything...
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SarisKhan
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PostSubject: Re: Disintegrators :(   Sat Jul 08 2017, 15:56

I think I'll consider swapping the DLs on my Raiders to get some Disintegrators in my army list. Points permitting, that could add some anti-elite infantry punch. Probably a good idea in a meta dominated by the many flavours of Spess Muhreens.
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sekac
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PostSubject: Re: Disintegrators :(   Sat Jul 08 2017, 18:38

They are really good at killing Rubric Marines who get +1 save if the attack is damage 1.
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HedonisiusVex
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PostSubject: Re: Disintegrators :(   Sat Jul 08 2017, 19:11

Should I find points for my lone Ravager to take 3 dissies alongside my 25 trueborn wielding a total of 10 blasters and10 splintercannons? (Not including pistols on characters)

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Ghost
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PostSubject: Re: Disintegrators :(   Sat Jul 08 2017, 19:29

I take them on everything and anything points permitting. They're just too good
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HedonisiusVex
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PostSubject: Re: Disintegrators :(   Sat Jul 08 2017, 19:46

Well I had a Wych unit to fill the remaining 5 transport slots, but had to remove them and most of the PGLs (have 2 left) to make room for all 3 boats and the Ravager to have dissies

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Jimsolo
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PostSubject: Re: Disintegrators :(   Sun Jul 09 2017, 04:32

My one game with a dissie Ravager totally changed my opinion on them. I think they're extremely good. I'm likely to use them consistently this edition.
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Dawnstone
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PostSubject: Re: Disintegrators :(   Sun Jul 09 2017, 06:33

Its a bit of a joke how much better they are than Starcannons post-FAQ. Same points, but with an extra shot, damage 2 instead of d3, and assault rather than heavy, at the cost of a mere -1 strength.
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aurynn
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PostSubject: Re: Disintegrators :(   Sun Jul 09 2017, 07:27

Well that -1 STR will show soon as the new Death Guard models come up. I believe there will be a lot of T6. Starcannons are better to shoot our Raiders and Venoms too for example. Dissies are not THAT much better.
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Massaen
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PostSubject: Re: Disintegrators :(   Sun Jul 09 2017, 09:23

Star cannons are also heavy which impacts their effectiveness on almost every platform

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Cerve
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PostSubject: Re: Disintegrators :(   Sun Jul 09 2017, 09:40

@lcfr wrote:
Am I alone in thinking there's very little reason to opt for Disintegrator Ravagers any longer? That extra 30pts just does not feel worthwhile!

I think quite the opposite. More I play, more I can't see why I have to take Dark Lances over Dissies :p
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Mppqlmd
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PostSubject: Re: Disintegrators :(   Sun Jul 09 2017, 10:18

@Cerve wrote:

I think quite the opposite. More I play, more I can't see why I have to take Dark Lances over Dissies :p
Budget is the only real good reason Very Happy
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aurynn
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PostSubject: Re: Disintegrators :(   Sun Jul 09 2017, 10:27

@Massaen wrote:
Star cannons are also heavy which impacts their effectiveness on almost every platform
True. Forgot about that. Very Happy
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Cerve
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PostSubject: Re: Disintegrators :(   Sun Jul 09 2017, 10:29

@Mppqlmd wrote:
@Cerve wrote:

I think quite the opposite. More I play, more I can't see why I have to take Dark Lances over Dissies :p
Budget is the only real good reason Very Happy


Fair point Smile but normally if I can't fit Dissies, I'll not fit a Ravager at all.

Dunno, I really like those weapons
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Drugo
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PostSubject: Re: Disintegrators :(   Sun Jul 09 2017, 14:01

@aurynn wrote:
Well that -1 STR will show soon as the new Death Guard models come up. I believe there will be a lot of T6. Starcannons are better to shoot our Raiders and Venoms too for example. Dissies are not THAT much better.

1 shot less, heavy instead of assault and dmg 1d3... really? Dissies all day every day.
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aurynn
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PostSubject: Re: Disintegrators :(   Sun Jul 09 2017, 14:16

I agree. I dont like heavy random weapons. But its not "bad". And S6 is just better on T5 and T3.
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Drugo
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PostSubject: Re: Disintegrators :(   Sun Jul 09 2017, 14:29

@aurynn wrote:
I agree. I dont like heavy random weapons. But its not "bad". And S6 is just better on T5 and T3.

Ye well, and worse on everything else, let alone if it's moving.
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Mppqlmd
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PostSubject: Re: Disintegrators :(   Sun Jul 09 2017, 15:43

@Drugo wrote:
@aurynn wrote:
I agree. I dont like heavy random weapons. But its not "bad". And S6 is just better on T5 and T3.

Ye well, and worse on everything else, let alone if it's moving.
Better against T3, T5, and T6 (and T10, for all that's worth). Worse against T1, 2, 4, 7, 8, 9. Pretty balanced Smile
But yeah, the dissie being assault is the dealbreaker here.
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lcfr
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PostSubject: Re: Disintegrators :(   Sun Jul 09 2017, 16:35

Ugh alright I'll admit it I'm sour and crotchety I have to pay 10pts more "these days" *shakes fist at sky*
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Mppqlmd
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PostSubject: Re: Disintegrators :(   Sun Jul 09 2017, 16:57

@lcfr wrote:
Ugh alright I'll admit it I'm sour and crotchety I have to pay 10pts more "these days" *shakes fist at sky*
I agree, it's cringy.
But if you consider that it was never a better time to spend points on raiders (since now you can expect them to live some turns), it's a little better.
And once you tried them in a few games (especially vs Nec, SM or such), you won't be able to go without them.
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