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 How do you all feel about Kabalite Warriors so far in 8th?

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FrankyMcShanky
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PostSubject: How do you all feel about Kabalite Warriors so far in 8th?   Thu Jul 06 2017, 23:28

How have Kabalites been performing for you?  What weaponry have you found effective on them?  Have you tried fielding large groups outside of Raiders?  If so did it work out?  Are splinter rifles doing okay for you or are you like me and find them a little lackluster this edition?
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PostSubject: Re: How do you all feel about Kabalite Warriors so far in 8th?   Fri Jul 07 2017, 02:55

I use them for bubble wrap. Give squads I expect to fight in close combat an agonizer because why not, sometimes a blaster if I expect them to stick around.

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PostSubject: Re: How do you all feel about Kabalite Warriors so far in 8th?   Fri Jul 07 2017, 03:41





Kabalite Warriors have always been a mainstay in my Dark Eldar army.  I feel like this edition, they're better than ever before.  They're still just as cheap, move a bit further than before, their weapons are even better and can actually hurt vehicles now, they can charge after shooting, and they get armor saves and FNP rolls almost all the time.  Not to mention you can even throw two squads of five in a Raider now.

The Phantasm Grenade Launcher is a must-take item for the Sybarite in my opinion.  It's a measly 3 points for an extra D3 shots that can really hurt low leadership units.

The special weapons meanwhile I tried, but didn't like.  In 7th edition I used to run my warriors in 5 man squads with a sybarite equipped with haywire grenades, and sometimes with a blaster as well.  This edition, the blaster feels pretty gimped.  They only do D3 damage, and cost 5 points less than a Dark Lance, so I don't really see the appeal anymore.  Meanwhile the shredder feels like an unnecessary upgrade this edition too.  During 7th the Shredder wasn't half bad on Trueborn squads, as at least they could dish out a ton of shots and wounds before charging in to throw down some melee attacks.

Likewise the heavy weapons don't have much appeal to me either this edition.  The Dark Lances are great, but with how many other platforms have access to them, and the benefit of them turning into assault weapons when equipped on a vehicle, makes them more beneficial there.  Meanwhile the splinter cannon definitely isn't what it used to be.  The extra shots aren't worth the points for the weapon in my opinion, and I'd rather just field 2 more kabalites for the price of it.  

The Sybarite meanwhile got a pretty nice buff.  The fact they just come base with the squad is awesome, and they're LD8, making them on par with Space Marines.  I like to run mine with a splinter rifle, PGL, and sometimes an agoniser.  I'm not a huge fan of the pistols, blast or splinter, they aren't worth the loss in range and shots, from my perspective.  The powersword meanwhile isn't a bad upgrade, but I think it pales in comparison to the agoniser.  With just a little less AP than a powersword, the agoniser lets our measly, S3 model hurt everything from Space Marines to Phantom Titans (yes, it's a monster, not a vehicle, RIP) on 4's.  



Overall I love the feel of Kabalite Warriors this edition.  I've had great success fielding them in squads of 10 (all with splinter rifles, and with the Sybarite having a PGL) in a raider.  They work great for zooming across the table, capturing objectives,  monster hunting, or even general anti-infantry duties.  I try to keep them embarked on their raider for as long as possible usually, trying to stack up power from pain so they can.  They're pretty good in close-combat, at least against non-assault-oriented units, but I try to hold them out of close combat til after turn 3, to maximize the amount of damage they'll do.  When I do charge them, I tend to send the raider in first, if the enemy unit is something equipped with just lasguns or bolters.  But if the enemy unit is a sternguard vet squad tricked out with meltas, I'll send the Kabalites in first and sacrifice a few warriors to prevent the boat from taking a lucky shot.  

As far as running the Kabalites without any transports, I've thought about it, but genuinely dislike the idea, even if it might perform well.  It just doesn't feel right making them walk across the board, but I'll probably try it at some point or another.





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PostSubject: Re: How do you all feel about Kabalite Warriors so far in 8th?   Fri Jul 07 2017, 04:07

off topic: love your army, looks great

I might try a few raiders with kabalites now in my wych list thanks to your review!

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PostSubject: Re: How do you all feel about Kabalite Warriors so far in 8th?   Fri Jul 07 2017, 05:56

I don't use them but at cost of a stinger pistol each how can you go wrong

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PostSubject: Re: How do you all feel about Kabalite Warriors so far in 8th?   Fri Jul 07 2017, 06:32

In an edition where poison is arguably weaker, where assault is the way to deal with hordes, where our melee has better synergy than shooting and where PFP is again largely melee oriented I do not see much use of them... Shame I have only 10 Wyches and about 50 kabalites... Very Happy
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PostSubject: Re: How do you all feel about Kabalite Warriors so far in 8th?   Fri Jul 07 2017, 06:41

When shooting out of raiders or venom's they preform well, Every battle report I've watch on youtube they do well

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PostSubject: Re: How do you all feel about Kabalite Warriors so far in 8th?   Fri Jul 07 2017, 10:19

Even tho poison isn't as good typically, due to armour saves, cover boosts and venoms costing more, they are much cheaper. Not only are they 7 instead of 8, but they are also relatively cheaper than a lot of options like the venom which got more expensive

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PostSubject: Re: How do you all feel about Kabalite Warriors so far in 8th?   Fri Jul 07 2017, 15:40

@Arani most players are semi-comp at my local, everyone players very strong lists and are very good players. Warriors in the open are 1st blood and will just do nothing all game for me.

On to topic now

From the many games of 8th i have played only about 12 or 13 of them are actually "true" DE (the rest been Harlequins or Ynnari and I take Troupes as my Troupes). So just a warning only a dozen games with DE Troops and out of those 12 or so only 4-5 were Kabalites (I tried Wyches and Wracks too).

For me the Kabalite is cheap, you take them b.c they are cheap and nothing else, add a shredder or blaster with Agonsier and PGL, take 2-3 turns popping shots getting objectives if need to and use them turns 3-5 as bait/holders/soakers.

For me the Blaster and Agonsier/PGL are the important models the other 3 guys are just extra wounds.

I have won 2 games b.c i charged my 3, 5man warrior squads (sense they are so cheap most players dont shoot them, they are shooting my Fliers, Ravagers, Trueborns etc...) and i manage to kill some SM's, Terminator and Guardsman when i played those few games with them.

Tho, IMO i rather just take something better. After playing them a few times they just dont do enough, my Trueborns and Troupes have done leaps and bounds more (tho the squads are 2-4x more costly).

My next couple games i played i was actually going to try something, MSU Kabalites in Raiders (2 5mans in a raider, Blaster+Agoniser) and do this 4x. I have a theory i want to try. WIll let you know in a few games when i go back to the club.

Conclusion aka TL;DR

They are cheap, you get what you pay for.

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PostSubject: Re: How do you all feel about Kabalite Warriors so far in 8th?   Fri Jul 07 2017, 16:02

amishprn86 wrote:
Warriors in the open are 1st blood and will just do nothing all game for me.

All too true. It just never sat well with me theme wise.

But as for the blasters.. I really do feel like they're a little overpriced this edition. Almost every other weapon in the game got their prices slashed, but the blaster is still 15 points. The AP and high strength is great, but it's only D3 damage. For 5 more points you get the possibility for 3 more wounds, and twice as much range from a Dark Lance.

With that in mind I've dropped almost all my blasters to clear up room for Ravagers, Razorwings, and Reapers, and Raiders.

But.. if there's one thing our Army is excellent at this edition, it's anti-tank.

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PostSubject: Re: How do you all feel about Kabalite Warriors so far in 8th?   Fri Jul 07 2017, 16:16

Yeah never thought of that.

Back in 7th i did a list of all Vehicles, 6 Ravagers, 8 Raiders and 8 Venoms with minimum (2 Troop 1 HQ).

Sadly its looking like that style list might be better the more i'm playing.

Tantalus, Ravagers, Bombers and Razorwings, then have Flocks all over with HQ in Tantalus Evil or Very Mad

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PostSubject: Re: How do you all feel about Kabalite Warriors so far in 8th?   Fri Jul 07 2017, 17:33

Kabalite Warriors have been pulling their weight for me, definitely. I'm not sold on buying them blasters any more, however. Points could be better spent elsewhere.
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PostSubject: Re: How do you all feel about Kabalite Warriors so far in 8th?   Fri Jul 07 2017, 19:18

Funnily enough, I only own one raider currently and tend to pile in Wyches so the boat can charge for them and then they tarpit the crap out of things. The Warriors I typically bunker down on something or somewhere important, sometimes even with a detachment of Scourges or Trueborn. If you arm them with Blasters and Dark Lances they become a giant "frak off" sign, and most of my opponents have avoided going for them due to their guns' long range, especially when you use other units to harrass them elsewhere. In the last three games my Kaballites survived til the end of game.

All in all I'm pretty happy with them, although I need more transports to make them more useful. They're just regular infantry but they're damn good in comparison to most of the armies I faced. Do wonders against Craftworlder Guardians and Orks.
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PostSubject: Re: How do you all feel about Kabalite Warriors so far in 8th?   Fri Jul 07 2017, 22:15

Ive been finding kabalites to be exceptionally useful.

Like everyone else ill agree the 5man blaster squads took a bit of a hit but i would still take them as a cheap troops choice(2 of these in a raider is cheap and only one deployment turn for 3 units) and PGL's are great

However i have also been using 10 man squads with a S.Cannon in a Raider with great success. 4 of these are probably going to be a staple of most of my lists.

I find the extra shots at 18+ to be useful and if you are taking 10 man squads anyway the 4 extra shots are more than worth it from 18 and less... unless you really need more lances but we have so many good options for them that its kind of a waste
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PostSubject: Re: How do you all feel about Kabalite Warriors so far in 8th?   Fri Jul 07 2017, 22:30

helvexis wrote:
Ive been finding kabalites to be exceptionally useful.

Like everyone else ill agree the 5man blaster squads took a bit of a hit but i would still take them as a cheap troops choice(2 of these in a raider is cheap and only one deployment turn for 3 units) and PGL's are great

However i have also been using 10 man squads with a S.Cannon in a Raider with great success. 4 of these are probably going to be a staple of most of my lists.

I find the extra shots at 18+ to be useful and if you are taking 10 man squads anyway the 4 extra shots are more than worth it from 18 and less... unless you really need more lances but we have so many good options for them that its kind of a waste

This is my Problem with 18+ range and 10man squads

10 Warriors + SC + Raider = 200pts for 3 Poison and 1 Lance
@ SC Rapid fire range: 15 poison, 1 lance
@ full Rapid fire range: 24 poison, 1 lance

5 Trueborn + 2 SC's + Venom w/ 2 SC's = 180pts for 12 poison
@ SC Rapid fire range: 27 poison
@ full Rapid fire range: 30 poison
Optional: Add 2 Shredders: 28 poison 2d3 S6 for 196pts

So just for Poison shots the Trueborn with SC's and venom is more shots and cheaper, but you lose the Lance, looking at AI tho i'd rather have the Trueborn with a venom, i take Ravagers and Fliers for AT (I've been able to kill 2 storm ravens in 1 turn with my fliers/ravagers so i have full faith in them, tho i do take a combine amount of 5-6 of them).

Not saying the Raider w/ Lance isnt worth the points, just looking at it from a range poison PoV is all.

Edit: The major difference is the body count, for me i like 5mans, i know many that like 10mans, so idk how much of a big deal that if for you.

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PostSubject: Re: How do you all feel about Kabalite Warriors so far in 8th?   Sat Jul 08 2017, 13:56

I'm not sure that poison got nerfed in this edition. Sure the fact that T6 isn't wounded on 6' by most armies takes away some of the fun of wounding everything on 4', but a lot of units gained in Toughness in this edition.
So poison isn't giving us that +2 to wound (6 -> 4) that often, but it's giving the +1 (5 -> 4) a lot more. And we can shoot it at vehicles. There's always that.

It feels really strange, but it looks like our army just went from "Okay, we are AI bosses, but how will i deal with the tanks" to "I got my AT covered, now where will i take my AI".
For me, 88 points for a 10 man unit that shoots 24 at close range (BS4), hits on 2+ in melee, has PFP, and a PGL is a blessing. And since small firearms don't have AP5 anymore, you're actually taking saves more often that not (although this hurts our Splinter Riffles as well).

IMO the thing that makes Kabalite Warriors so uninteresting to many is that the Archon doesn't buff them at all (the current buff is a joke). But codex should fix that... maybe ? Please ?

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PostSubject: Re: How do you all feel about Kabalite Warriors so far in 8th?   Sat Jul 08 2017, 14:01

Yeah if the Archon gave us a buff like everyone else then it might be different.

They just need to bring back Duck Sliscus for that purpose.

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PostSubject: Re: How do you all feel about Kabalite Warriors so far in 8th?   Sat Jul 08 2017, 14:05

amishprn86 wrote:
Yeah if the Archon gave us a buff like everyone else then it might be different.
Let's be honest the main role for an Archon in 7th edition was giving preferred ennemy to trueborns and reavers anyway cheers
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PostSubject: Re: How do you all feel about Kabalite Warriors so far in 8th?   Sat Jul 08 2017, 14:08

But this isnt 7th, this is 8th.

DE is lacking in the HQ department for sure.

I want Skyboard/Jetbikes for HQ's, i want Duck Sliscus and Vect Back.

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PostSubject: Re: How do you all feel about Kabalite Warriors so far in 8th?   Sat Jul 08 2017, 14:13

Lets not forget that we lost Splinter Racks, which does sting a little this edition.

That said, my Kabalites have been great for me. Massed splinter fire remains good against smaller elite units. What good is that 2+ save when you're trying to save 18 wounds worth

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PostSubject: Re: How do you all feel about Kabalite Warriors so far in 8th?   Sat Jul 08 2017, 14:17

On the note of the Archon buff.. I know I'm probably in the minority here, but I don't think he really should give <Kabal> units any buffs for shooting or anything. I mean from a fluff perspective I doubt most Archons give two crap about their low-born Kabalite Warriors. I don't really think they're the kind of guys and gals that are on the battlefield giving rousing speeches and trying to inspire heroism or greater accuracy. Instead they're full of "towering arrogance", and more often than not are probably just looking out for their own gains.

The courts meanwhile do get a few decent synergies like being able to pull wounds off the archon, rerolling to hit within a certain proximity, and such. But of course, Courts aren't exactly what they used to be.

I think Kabalites are in a decent spot right now. I mean they're hurting literally every monster in the game on 4's now (even Phantom Titans, Heirophants, and Wraithknights). But they of course aren't all that good against regular infantry like Imperial Guard. But that's what the Shredder is supposed to be for. I think that's the real item that needs to be adjusted to give us potent, anti-infantry firepower. I think for starters the Shredder needs to be d6 shots instead of a pathetic D3, and giving it the same rules as other mono-filament based weapons wouldn't hurt either. If that was the case.. Trueborn squads rocking out 4 shredders would... Well.. shred.

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PostSubject: Re: How do you all feel about Kabalite Warriors so far in 8th?   Sat Jul 08 2017, 14:32

Arani wrote:
On the note of the Archon buff..  I know I'm probably in the minority here, but I don't think he really should give <Kabal> units any buffs for shooting or anything.  I mean from a fluff perspective I doubt most Archons give two crap about their low-born Kabalite Warriors.  I don't really think they're the kind of guys and gals that are on the battlefield giving rousing speeches and trying to inspire heroism or greater accuracy.  Instead they're full of "towering arrogance", and more often than not are probably just looking out for their own gains.  

I can see your point. But still :
The rules are clear, he has a psychologic impact on the troops. He is a powerful, cruel man, and they fear his authority.
In the current rules, that authority is translated into "fear of deserting". He boosts leadership because they know what's going to happen if they run away.
But it could be "fear of failure" : God, we really have to hit that target because our cruel lord doesn't tolerate weakness and incompetence.
Both fit the spirit quite well, don't you think ?
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PostSubject: Re: How do you all feel about Kabalite Warriors so far in 8th?   Sat Jul 08 2017, 14:37

Thats why i said give us back Duck Sliscus for Kabal buffs.

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PostSubject: Re: How do you all feel about Kabalite Warriors so far in 8th?   Sat Jul 08 2017, 14:47

Maybe that will be fixed with our own warlord traits in the codex.

I love Kabalite warriors. They are great.
I use 5 dudes with Agoniser, Phantasm Grenade Launcher and Blaster. They were great so far.

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PostSubject: Re: How do you all feel about Kabalite Warriors so far in 8th?   Sat Jul 08 2017, 14:53

So far I'm satisfied with my Kabalites. They zoom across the table in their Raiders and blast enemy infantry off objectives. Cultists, CSM, Blood Angels Terminators... they all succumb to the splinters, sooner or later.

10-man squads with a Splinter Cannon in Raiders. I like having the durability and 15 shots at 18", or 24 at 12" when I move closer for the kill.
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