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 Alpha strike for 8th with DE still exist?

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Crisis_Vyper
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PostSubject: Alpha strike for 8th with DE still exist?   Tue Jul 04 2017, 15:23

With the new edition up and running, I noticed that most DE armies tend to be starting second due to the number of transports and vehicles we are having. Also due to the prominence of alpha striking, it makes things a little odd for DE to actually do anything resembling an alpha strike.

Are there any ways for DE to dish out an alpha still?
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colinsherlow
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PostSubject: Re: Alpha strike for 8th with DE still exist?   Tue Jul 04 2017, 16:01

Dark Eldar seem a lot more like a beta strike army now. I love the army a lot ton, but I feel that the lack of DS and WWPs make the army feel a little less Dark Eldary. DE don't really even need more DS/alpha stuff. But some kind of night fight and/or a minor going first mechanic wold be cool to see.

Right now I use flyers and Razorwing flocks to defend against the alpha

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Ikol
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PostSubject: Re: Alpha strike for 8th with DE still exist?   Tue Jul 04 2017, 16:08

Have EVERYTHING in a transport.

I've played a quad-Tantalus list (using proxies) that was utterly ridiculous.  Place 4 units on the board.  Fly up 32".  Charge ALL the things.  Most die, or become useless.  The three T7 W18 models can usually take retaliatory fire without incedent.  If your opponent was silly enough to set up against a wall, you can sort of pin them in place with all 3 boats so that they can't fall back.

Disembark your troops, fall back with the Infantry, shoot with EVERYTHING at Rapid fire Range, targetting mainly units in the backline, or anything CC-dedicated.  Make sure to hit as many units as possible with PLG's.

Charge with EVERYTHING.  Keep them pinned.

Next turn, fall back and charge shoot-charge with the Tantali.

Rinse, repeat.  Kindly inform the Tau player across from you that they did a really poor job of positioning.
Win.

*Results may vary against competently positioned opponents.

But the Advance-shoot-charge-weather_the_storm-disembark-fall_back_with_boats_and_shoot_with_EVERYTHING still applies.

So yeah, we have an Alpha Strike option, it'd just be expensive as balls to do with the actual models.

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krayd
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PostSubject: Re: Alpha strike for 8th with DE still exist?   Tue Jul 04 2017, 16:32

@Crisis_Vyper wrote:
With the new edition up and running, I noticed that most DE armies tend to be starting second due to the number of transports and vehicles we are having. Also due to the prominence of alpha striking, it makes things a little odd for DE to actually do anything resembling an alpha strike.

Are there any ways for DE to dish out an alpha still?

Dunno about that. In the 1st 8th edition tourney I played, I went first in every round. Sure, I've lots of stuff in transports, but when you deploy one, you're deploying both the transport and its contents in one 'deployment' turn. So, I'd still end up finishing before my opponents, who would have a mix of non-transport vehicles, infantry, and other stuff.

The only game where I haven't gone first is vs. a 3 knight list.
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CptMetal
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PostSubject: Re: Alpha strike for 8th with DE still exist?   Tue Jul 04 2017, 16:51

How much points is a Tantalus and where will we get the rules?
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Trueborn44
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PostSubject: Re: Alpha strike for 8th with DE still exist?   Wed Jul 05 2017, 03:14

@Krayd how many drops did you have in your list? Do you remember any pattern for how many drops others were taking? I know it's going to vary a lot across different armies but getting a better idea of how many units to aim for is always helpful.

@cptmetal I believe the tantalus is in the forgeworld index isn't it?
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krayd
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PostSubject: Re: Alpha strike for 8th with DE still exist?   Wed Jul 05 2017, 05:04

@Trueborn44 wrote:
@Krayd how many drops did you have in your list? Do you remember any pattern for how many drops others were taking? I know it's going to vary a lot across different armies but getting a better idea of how many units to aim for is always helpful.

I had 7 drops in the last tourney I played. Granted, it was a 1500 pt tourney. There would be a bit more in 2000 pts.
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CptMetal
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PostSubject: Re: Alpha strike for 8th with DE still exist?   Wed Jul 05 2017, 05:07

Drops? What do you mean with that?
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Trueborn44
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PostSubject: Re: Alpha strike for 8th with DE still exist?   Wed Jul 05 2017, 05:11

@cptmetal
The number of units you deploy that determines whether you go first or second. E.g.
Two 5 man kabalite units in a Raider is 3 units, but if you deploy both inside the Raider it only counts as 1 drop.
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Ikol
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PostSubject: Re: Alpha strike for 8th with DE still exist?   Wed Jul 05 2017, 05:12

Tantalus: between 345 and 355 points - give or take

Rules: Forgeworld Xenos Index.

Or this link: https://www.forgeworld.co.uk/en-AU/Imperial-Armour-Index-xenos-2017

Mod edit - please don't supply points values or links to copywritten material

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Bedlam55
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PostSubject: Re: Alpha strike for 8th with DE still exist?   Thu Jul 06 2017, 07:23

One thing I want to try is 20 Ynnari hellions with Word of the Phoenix Psychic Power. That's a 14" move then another 14" move + 2D6" for the charge range = 28+2d6" movement in one turn. That's not including combat drugs or re-rolls to charge dice.

That should be an Alpha strike... right?
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Imateria
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PostSubject: Re: Alpha strike for 8th with DE still exist?   Thu Jul 06 2017, 15:28

@Bedlam55 wrote:
One thing I want to try is 20 Ynnari hellions with Word of the Phoenix Psychic Power. That's a 14" move then another 14" move + 2D6" for the charge range = 28+2d6" movement in one turn. That's not including combat drugs or re-rolls to charge dice.

That should be an Alpha strike... right?
Only if you're going first. It's also 455pts minimum.
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|Meavar
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PostSubject: Re: Alpha strike for 8th with DE still exist?   Thu Jul 06 2017, 15:33

That much points means less units: more chance of going first Razz
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amishprn86
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PostSubject: Re: Alpha strike for 8th with DE still exist?   Thu Jul 06 2017, 16:48

The FW index's were leaked, you can find them easily on the webs.

We can still Alpha strike, put 2 units in raiders or 10mans and take raiders/Tantalus with Scourges and Mandrakes.

tho when we get WWP's back from Codex's it will feel more like an Alpha strike.

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Crisis_Vyper
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PostSubject: Re: Alpha strike for 8th with DE still exist?   Thu Jul 13 2017, 04:34

@Ikol wrote:
Have EVERYTHING in a transport.

I've played a quad-Tantalus list (using proxies) that was utterly ridiculous.  Place 4 units on the board.  Fly up 32".  Charge ALL the things.  Most die, or become useless.  The three T7 W18 models can usually take retaliatory fire without incedent.  If your opponent was silly enough to set up against a wall, you can sort of pin them in place with all 3 boats so that they can't fall back.

Disembark your troops, fall back with the Infantry, shoot with EVERYTHING at Rapid fire Range, targetting mainly units in the backline, or anything CC-dedicated.  Make sure to hit as many units as possible with PLG's.

Charge with EVERYTHING.  Keep them pinned.

Next turn, fall back and charge shoot-charge with the Tantali.

Rinse, repeat.  Kindly inform the Tau player across from you that they did a really poor job of positioning.
Win.

*Results may vary against competently positioned opponents.

But the Advance-shoot-charge-weather_the_storm-disembark-fall_back_with_boats_and_shoot_with_EVERYTHING still applies.

So yeah, we have an Alpha Strike option, it'd just be expensive as balls to do with the actual models.

Interesting build, but very unforgiving on the wallet. Also the firepower is okay against medium sized armies, but is weaker against horde play.

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