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 1750 Ynarri/DE list

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UlrikTheSlayer
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PostSubject: 1750 Ynarri/DE list   Tue Jul 04 2017, 15:09

Hello, (I am new here :p)

The purpose of this list is to have 7pts stratagem and a counter to a bit of everything or not (did not test it yet but I believe it has potential)..
 
My main concern is keeping Troupe alive as they hit quite hard and are fast. This is why I plan on putting Grotesque and Haemonculus on front line to put pressure. . Mandrake & Scourge have choices, if my opponent has lots of troops, i might have the first round so I would put on the field my Scourge with Dark Lance so they can hit on 3+ instead of appearing anywhere.

I like the fact that i can sacrifice a pack of 5 Scourges to destroy a hidden ennemy anywhere on the map / or really focus on an opponent error. The 5 Scourge splinter are here to kill Orks/Tyranids and alike and keep safe turn1 if i do not have init. They will stay in reserve no matter what on first round and hit something not too resilient anywhere too or they will teleport in my troops to benefit from soulburst. Scourge are in fact better with Ynarri's I believe.

Soulburst not working on vehicule anymore, i abandoned ravagers to scourge (with Drukhari and not Ynarri i would definately take ravagers) and put 2 razorwing as i find them more "good for everything" and more resilient than ravagers. Also, it is apparently possible to take an objective with a flyer as it isn't said that flyers can't take objectives (but please contradict me if so). It also does not say on the razorwing rules that you have to measure distance from the hull or from the base.

Troupe : 2 Fusion pistols (always helped me kill things tough) and 3 Embraces. The Troupe is here to compensate lack of S5 but i prefer to pay less to have S4 -3 Armor and the Troupe Master to reroll wounds. I wonder about stats on this but paying 30 pts to change it might not be worth it or maybe pay for it and remove the Troupe master (but I need 2 HQ :p).

Haemonculus :

Mandrakes : well, Mortal wounds and hard to kill 5+/6++ and +1 to hit them. Nice to put turn2 to reroll charge if you think you can win the combat. I put 2x5 so my detachment gets a nice +1 Command points. I believe mandrakes. I believe that we will see lists with 20+ quite fast but I do want to be fairplay and have diversity.

Grotesques : 6 toughness, even if i do believe that between 5 and 7 in this edition, is useless. Its 5 or 8+ but having 6 is just useful against guardsman and eldars in melee (which is rare i believe).
They also provide a good amount of mortal wound on 4 attaques and a free attack with the cleaver. I do not think putting them with liquifier gun is useful and is more expansive. Their role is to die, threaten ennemies or manage big blobs of Orks in melee and permits Troupe to have their share of killing things.



++ Battalion Detachment +3CP (Aeldari - Ynnari) [66 PL, 1287pts] ++

+ HQ +

Shadowseer [7 PL, 134pts]: Shuriken Pistol

Troupe Master [4 PL, 74pts]: Fusion Pistol, Harlequin's Embrace

+ Troops +

Troupe [7 PL, 123pts]
. Player: Fusion Pistol, Harlequin's Embrace
. Player: Fusion Pistol, Harlequin's Embrace
. Player: Harlequin's Embrace, Shuriken Pistol
. Player: Harlequin's Embrace, Shuriken Pistol
. Player: Harlequin's Embrace, Shuriken Pistol

Troupe [7 PL, 117pts]
. Player: Fusion Pistol, Harlequin's Embrace
. Player: Fusion Pistol, Harlequin's Embrace
. Player: Harlequin's Embrace, Shuriken Pistol
. Player: Harlequin's Embrace, Shuriken Pistol
. Player: Shuriken Pistol

Wyches [3 PL, 48pts]
. Hekatrix: Hekatarii blade, Splinter pistol, Phantasm Grenade Launcher
. 4x Wych

+ Fast Attack +

Scourges [6 PL, 130pts]
. Scourge with Special / Heavy weapon: Splinter Cannon
. Scourge with Special / Heavy weapon: Splinter Cannon
. Scourge with Special / Heavy weapon: Splinter Cannon
. Scourge with Special / Heavy weapon: Splinter Cannon
. Solarite: Shardcarbine

Scourges [6 PL, 150pts]
. Scourge with Special / Heavy weapon: Dark Lance
. Scourge with Special / Heavy weapon: Dark Lance
. Scourge with Special / Heavy weapon: Dark Lance
. Scourge with Special / Heavy weapon: Dark Lance
. Solarite: Shardcarbine

+ Flyer +

Razorwing Jetfighter [8 PL, 155pts]: 2 Dark Lances, Twin splinter rifle

Razorwing Jetfighter [8 PL, 155pts]: 2 Dark Lances, Twin splinter rifle

+ Dedicated Transport +

Starweaver [5 PL, 99pts]: 2x Shuriken Cannon

Starweaver [5 PL, 99pts]: 2x Shuriken Cannon

++ Spearhead detachment : +1CP (Aeldari - Drukhari) [25 PL, 466pts] ++

+ HQ +

Haemonculus [5 PL, 76pts]: Haemonculus tools, Splinter Pistol

+ Elites +

Grotesques [10 PL, 200pts]
. Grotesque: Flesh Gauntlet, Monstrous cleaver
. Grotesque: Flesh Gauntlet, Monstrous cleaver
. Grotesque: Flesh Gauntlet, Monstrous cleaver
. Grotesque: Flesh Gauntlet, Monstrous cleaver
. Grotesque: Flesh Gauntlet, Monstrous cleaver

Mandrakes [5 PL, 95pts]: 4x Mandrake, Nightfiend

Mandrakes [5 PL, 95pts]: 4x Mandrake, Nightfiend

++ Total: [91 PL, 1750pts] ++


Last edited by UlrikTheSlayer on Tue Jul 04 2017, 15:38; edited 1 time in total
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amorrowlyday
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PostSubject: Re: 1750 Ynarri/DE list   Tue Jul 04 2017, 15:31

you need to get under 1750 to be a 1750 list. I like this as a skeleton to build 1850, would need to be retooled for 2k. I'm not going to comment on it as a 1750 list until it legally is one.
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UlrikTheSlayer
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PostSubject: Re: 1750 Ynarri/DE list   Tue Jul 04 2017, 15:34

I agree that for a 1850 or 2000 it would be better but I have to do it with 1750. I wish I could put some Electrocorrosive Whip but its a bit too expansive, maybe find somewhere to have the points or remove a grotesque to put more tools everywhere. Thats the purpose of this list, it must be around 1750 and see if we can manage to "optimize" it.
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amorrowlyday
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PostSubject: Re: 1750 Ynarri/DE list   Tue Jul 04 2017, 15:53

I do, because which one do you drop? That has rippling repercussions through everything else in the damn list unless its the one on the TM or one of the ones in the squad they are paired with. Otherwise you've just induced quantifiable variation into your fielding practices that provides you reduced utility.

If that is the approach you want to take to 1750 you aren't going to like my opinion since I make a huge point about completeness in army design and building for a point cost, not to a point cost.

I think your wych tax is literally wasted without a vehicle.
I want more fusion pistols.
I'm not sure if Splinter cannons are points effective on scourges.
That isn't a Spearhead Detachment it's a Vanguard Detachment.
I don't like 5 Grotesques. I'd either bring 3 or 2 squads of 3.
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UlrikTheSlayer
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PostSubject: Re: 1750 Ynarri/DE list   Tue Jul 04 2017, 16:26

I do agree with completeness, but I think that around 3 points differences, the balance change of the army is minimal. I've changed the list to meet your expectations.

Question then :

What would you take point cost wise to remove the scourges and have some enough firepower to deal with large amount of troops ? more Grotesque ? I thought about Archon and Sslyth but Sslyth being characters give free KP quickly and do not provide MOrtal wounds in melee but have 4 wounds and can shoot but do get the Soulburst (they do not have Power from Pain so they are better as Ynarri's). I fear putting multi-wounds models on vehicule as they are slain if they do a 1 if the vehicule explode.

More fusion pistols ? I tried with 5 but Troupe they can die just if the vehicule is destroyed. That is why I put only 2 to be more cost effective and believe that having a loss of 1 or 2 Troupe or if I lose init.

Ok about Vanguard instead of Spearhead, still you understood as it requires 3 elites and 1 HQ...

I don't have room for 2x3 Grotesque (thats more because I have only 5 of it as miniatures).

I do not think my Wyches as taxes but as Soulburst potential action :p, a not too expensive way to have a troop die even if i lose first blood.
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amorrowlyday
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PostSubject: Re: 1750 Ynarri/DE list   Tue Jul 04 2017, 19:12

@UlrikTheSlayer wrote:
What would you take point cost wise to remove the scourges and have some enough firepower to deal with large amount of troops ? more Grotesque ? I thought about Archon and Sslyth but Sslyth being characters give free KP quickly and do not provide MOrtal wounds in melee but have 4 wounds and can shoot but do get the Soulburst (they do not have Power from Pain so they are better as Ynarri's). I fear putting multi-wounds models on vehicule as they are slain if they do a 1 if the vehicule explode.

I just mean Carbines generally do that job better cheaper. Other things do too but rippling changes and what not.

@UlrikTheSlayer wrote:
More fusion pistols ? I tried with 5 but Troupe they can die just if the vehicule is destroyed. That is why I put only 2 to be more cost effective and believe that having a loss of 1 or 2 Troupe or if I lose init.

We agree somewhat. I like 3 per squad. I also don't really take troupe masters.

@UlrikTheSlayer wrote:
I don't have room for 2x3 Grotesque (thats more because I have only 5 of it as miniatures).

A Vanguard Detachment is 3-6 elites.

@UlrikTheSlayer wrote:
I do not think my Wyches as taxes but as Soulburst potential action :p, a not too expensive way to have a troop die even if i lose first blood.

Kabalites would be cheaper, and potentially better, if that's all you want them for.
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UlrikTheSlayer
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PostSubject: Re: 1750 Ynarri/DE list   Tue Jul 04 2017, 22:39

I think you would find this list more approriate maybe. I believe that the Haemonculus give +1 Toughness to my Venoms with 5 Kabalites on it each. It will provide a better usage and field cover than wych and 2 grotesques and more hitpoints with the 2 venoms.

What do you think ? I was thinking about putting Blasters instead of Dark Lance on my Scourges as it would give room for 20 points to give a blaster on another Kabalite or put 2 more fusion pistols (you seem to like fusion pistols). Thanks for your advice Smile


++ Vanguard Detachment +1CP (Aeldari - Drukhari) [21 PL, 390pts] ++

+ HQ +

Haemonculus [5 PL, 80pts]: Agoniser, Crucible of Malediction, Haemonculus tools, Splinter Pistol

+ Elites +

Grotesques [6 PL, 120pts]
. Grotesque: Flesh Gauntlet, Monstrous cleaver
. Grotesque: Flesh Gauntlet, Monstrous cleaver
. Grotesque: Flesh Gauntlet, Monstrous cleaver

Mandrakes [5 PL, 95pts]: 4x Mandrake, Nightfiend

Mandrakes [5 PL, 95pts]: 4x Mandrake, Nightfiend

++ Battalion Detachment +3CP (Aeldari - Ynnari) [71 PL, 1360pts] ++

+ HQ +

Shadowseer [7 PL, 134pts]: Shuriken Pistol

Troupe Master [4 PL, 74pts]: Fusion Pistol, Harlequin's Embrace

+ Troops +

Kabalite Warriors [3 PL, 50pts]
. 3x Kabalite Warrior
. Kabalite Warrior with special weapon: Blaster
. Sybarite: Splinter Rifle

Kabalite Warriors [3 PL, 38pts]
. 4x Kabalite Warrior
. Sybarite: Phantasm Grenade Launcher, Splinter Rifle

Troupe [7 PL, 123pts]
. Player: Fusion Pistol, Harlequin's Embrace
. Player: Fusion Pistol, Harlequin's Embrace
. Player: Harlequin's Embrace, Shuriken Pistol
. Player: Harlequin's Embrace, Shuriken Pistol
. Player: Harlequin's Embrace, Shuriken Pistol

Troupe [7 PL, 123pts]
. Player: Fusion Pistol, Harlequin's Embrace
. Player: Fusion Pistol, Harlequin's Embrace
. Player: Harlequin's Embrace, Shuriken Pistol
. Player: Harlequin's Embrace, Shuriken Pistol
. Player: Harlequin's Embrace, Shuriken Pistol

+ Fast Attack +

Scourges [6 PL, 150pts]
. Scourge with Special / Heavy weapon: Dark Lance
. Scourge with Special / Heavy weapon: Dark Lance
. Scourge with Special / Heavy weapon: Dark Lance
. Scourge with Special / Heavy weapon: Dark Lance
. Solarite: Shardcarbine

+ Flyer +

Razorwing Jetfighter [8 PL, 155pts]: 2 Dark Lances, Twin splinter rifle

Razorwing Jetfighter [8 PL, 155pts]: 2 Dark Lances, Twin splinter rifle

+ Dedicated Transport +

Starweaver [5 PL, 99pts]: 2x Shuriken Cannon

Starweaver [5 PL, 99pts]: 2x Shuriken Cannon

Venom [4 PL, 80pts]: Splinter Cannon, Twin splinter rifle

Venom [4 PL, 80pts]: Splinter Cannon, Twin splinter rifle

++ Total: [92 PL, 1750pts] ++
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UlrikTheSlayer
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PostSubject: Re: 1750 Ynarri/DE list   Mon Jul 10 2017, 11:32

Just a feedback. My list actually made that I completely wiped out an Ork Army (even with losing initiative on a 6).

The Orks had :

-Ghazkull
-Weirdboy with teleport spell
-4x30 Pistol Boyz
-3 Mek Gunz with Kustom Mega-Kanon
-1 Mek with a shock attack gun (seems not legit :p)
-Gretchins around
-1 Wazbom Blastajet with ForeField & 2 Burn-Bommer

The -1 to hit of Venoms/Flyers is really a pain for Orkz as shooting was really not good for them. 2 of his 3 planes were dead T1 and a pack of 30 boyz and 1 Mek Gunz.

He really missed out his first turn, doing nothing on my vehicules and 1 wound on my grotesque and killed only one of my scourge that I putted down thinking i had initiative (but i did put them far enough).

I also used a tactic to disallow charge from his boyz by denying a full flank and putting everything on the left side. One Flyers on the Front Right and the other on the right at around 7-8" of the other one. Also the Grotesque in the back. He had the choice on teleporting and charging the Grotesque (they are there for that and can almost manage orks with their 6 toughness). My vehicules were protected. He decided to teleport and charge the grotesque. I lost only one grotesque to 30 orks as most of them where too far to actually to pile in. (Lining them up 2" of each other is the way to do).

I then killed everything on my turn 2 and could then do a second round of shots from 4 scourges with their Dark Lances. My planes really managed to thin down another pack and kill the 2 Mek Gunz. Razorwing are great, way better and more polyvalent than ravagers. Scourges are a must take for Ynarris as they can provide 8 shots your turn, and 4 shots during an ennemy turn (if this ennemy is melee).

My Troupe could wipe an Ork unit teleported not far from 3 Gretchins. He missed his charge, my turn 3 one starweaver charged his pistol boys and gretchins after thining down a lot his third pack and my troop killed everything (Gretchin first, so I could do another run on melee with my Troupe).

This Soul burst, used correctly is really a boon, too strong i believe when the opponent do not really know it well.

Turn 4 he had only Ghazkull alive with 2 Grotesques he could charge killing one. Then I disengaged and kill him with Blasters and Lances...
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