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 Scourges and hellions after the FAQ - thoughts and feelings?

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The Shredder
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PostSubject: Re: Scourges and hellions after the FAQ - thoughts and feelings?   Mon Jul 03 2017, 14:22

Scourges still seem fine for DSing. As for Hellions, I just don't see the appeal. They still seem insanely expensive for units with T3 and 5+ saves.

I am curious though - which combat drugs are you guys using with them?
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Marrath
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PostSubject: Re: Scourges and hellions after the FAQ - thoughts and feelings?   Mon Jul 03 2017, 15:56

Was thinking about modeling docking bays for Skyboards to a Raider, like some Tau models have for Drones, well so much for that :/
GW why u kill my creativity?
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The Shredder
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PostSubject: Re: Scourges and hellions after the FAQ - thoughts and feelings?   Mon Jul 03 2017, 16:15

@Marrath wrote:
Was thinking about modeling docking bays for Skyboards to a Raider, like some Tau models have for Drones, well so much for that :/
GW why u kill my creativity?

Also rather sad as it means an Archon/Haemonculus with wings (if we ever get one) probably won't be able to ride in a Raider or Venom either.
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Marrath
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PostSubject: Re: Scourges and hellions after the FAQ - thoughts and feelings?   Mon Jul 03 2017, 16:18

If we get wings and/or Jetbikes for HQs, i'll be happy regardless.
IF.
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The Shredder
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PostSubject: Re: Scourges and hellions after the FAQ - thoughts and feelings?   Mon Jul 03 2017, 16:21

@Marrath wrote:
If we get wings and/or Jetbikes for HQs, i'll be happy regardless.
IF.

If we get wings and jetbikes for our HQs I'll ride my winged unicorn on a victory lap around the moon.
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aurynn
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PostSubject: Re: Scourges and hellions after the FAQ - thoughts and feelings?   Mon Jul 03 2017, 16:25

@The Shredder wrote:
@Marrath wrote:
If we get wings and/or Jetbikes for HQs, i'll be happy regardless.
IF.

If we get wings and jetbikes for our HQs I'll ride my winged unicorn on a victory lap around the moon.
We should race then. I'll ride my pony covered in chainsaws...

Just imagine a succy on a bike with a 4++.

But nah. I dont think it will happen. Wings are for scourges and getting a scourge special character is much more likely than having archon with wings. I believe it would be very very unfluffy.

And bikes? If anyone, then Succubus could ride it, but Reavers are wannabe wyches. I don't see one climbing into the seat. So again - Reaver special character is IMO much more probable.
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The Shredder
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PostSubject: Re: Scourges and hellions after the FAQ - thoughts and feelings?   Mon Jul 03 2017, 16:37

@aurynn wrote:
We should race then. I'll ride my pony covered in chainsaws...

You're on!

@aurynn wrote:
But nah. I dont think it will happen. Wings are for scourges and getting a scourge special character is much more likely than having archon with wings. I believe it would be very very unfluffy.

I disagree. It might be relatively rare, but Haemonculi cater to all sorts of odd requests. I'm sure there are at least a few Archons out there who would want wings.

Hell, it could even be a Scourge who managed to rise to become an Archon by some means or other.

I don't want it to be a SC because I absolutely despise it when SCs get all the interesting rules and wargear, whilst the regular characters have to pick through their leavings.

@aurynn wrote:
And bikes? If anyone, then Succubus could ride it, but Reavers are wannabe wyches. I don't see one climbing into the seat. So again - Reaver special character is IMO much more probable.

And again, I think this is something we should get to decide as players. It's not like you'll be forced to take a Jetbike for your succubus if you consider it unfluffy for her. However, the current rules (as well as the SC-only ones that you're suggesting) mean that I can't take one even if it fits her fluff perfectly.
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PostSubject: Re: Scourges and hellions after the FAQ - thoughts and feelings?   Mon Jul 03 2017, 17:01

It's kind of funny that a military based around speed and overwhelming firepower in a blink of an eye doesn't have a way to deliver skimmer units. I mean, out of all the armies in the lore... it just seems so natural for them to have a "carrier" vehicle that all the little angry bees swarm out of once it gets to where it needs to be. Perhaps a new flier is in order that grav-chutes like a valkyrie heh

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aurynn
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PostSubject: Re: Scourges and hellions after the FAQ - thoughts and feelings?   Mon Jul 03 2017, 18:17

@Shredder - on a lighter note - given the multitudes of opinions on the matter I disagree that players should decide this. Coz as always, nothing will be decided and well... forgive my heresy, but democracy has already proven itself as a very bad system beyond certain number of people. Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy

But seriously now - I do not think, nor want to have the same options as CWE. I liked Baron, I liked Duke, I liked Malys and even Vect... I don't want to have "Dark Autarchs". I can play Ynnari for that.

Succubus, I'd like to see as a darker and non-solitary version of solitaire who does indeed give her cult some kind of command bonus. Like some disembark bonus "First in the Fray" - all cult units in transports within 6" of the succubus or her transport can disembark at the end of the Transport's movement. Reroll of 1s to hit - why not. I want her quick, daring. Or she might set stances for her unit, or just be selfish and sacrifice her wyches/brides to strike a killing blow. Not have her ride a bike...

Archon... thats difficult. I'd let him gain a few VPs over the course of the battle for kills his army does. Or unleash some kind of artifact power through that ability (as he gathers souls). I really do not see him putting himself in any kind of danger like riding a bike.
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Marrath
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PostSubject: Re: Scourges and hellions after the FAQ - thoughts and feelings?   Mon Jul 03 2017, 18:38

There has been a winged Archon in the Dark Eldar Path Trilogy.
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aurynn
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PostSubject: Re: Scourges and hellions after the FAQ - thoughts and feelings?   Mon Jul 03 2017, 18:43

Was there? I have read first two and beginning of third book. Did I miss it or didn't got to it? Anyway, did the Winged Archon fly into battle with Scourges or tried to keep himself safe?
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The Shredder
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PostSubject: Re: Scourges and hellions after the FAQ - thoughts and feelings?   Mon Jul 03 2017, 19:21

@aurynn wrote:
@Shredder - on a lighter note - given the multitudes of opinions on the matter I disagree that players should decide this. Coz as always, nothing will be decided and well... forgive my heresy, but democracy has already proven itself as a very bad system beyond certain number of people. Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy

I think you misunderstood what I meant.

I meant that they should give us the options and allow us - as individual players - to decide whether or not we wish to use those options for our HQs.

@aurynn wrote:

But seriously now - I do not think, nor want to have the same options as CWE. I liked Baron, I liked Duke, I liked Malys and even Vect... I don't want to have "Dark Autarchs". I can play Ynnari for that.

But, again, no one would be forcing you to use those options. If you only ever wanted to run your Archon/Haemonculus/Succubus on foot, then you'd still be free to do so.

Also, since when did wings and bikes become the exclusive property of Autarchs? I wasn't aware that SM players were tossing away their Captain's bikes, lest said Captains become too much like Autarchs. Neutral

@aurynn wrote:

Succubus, I'd like to see as a darker and non-solitary version of solitaire who does indeed give her cult some kind of command bonus. Like some disembark bonus "First in the Fray" - all cult units in transports within 6" of the succubus or her transport can disembark at the end of the Transport's movement. Reroll of 1s to hit - why not. I want her quick, daring. Or she might set stances for her unit, or just be selfish and sacrifice her wyches/brides to strike a killing blow. Not have her ride a bike...

That's fair enough. However, what if I want to have her leading the charge from within a unit of Hellions or Reaver Jetbikes? Is she supposed to jog sweatily behind them as they shoot off ahead? Or do they have to go painstakingly slowly in order to match her speed, all the while wondering why she doesn't just buy her own bike? Or maybe GW could release a tandem-Jetbike, with one of the Reavers giving our poor, hapless succubus a lift.

@aurynn wrote:

Archon... thats difficult. I'd let him gain a few VPs over the course of the battle for kills his army does. Or unleash some kind of artifact power through that ability (as he gathers souls). I really do not see him putting himself in any kind of danger like riding a bike.

The fact that he's on the field at all is putting himself in danger. If he wanted to be safe, he'd be watching the action from within a cloaked ship orbiting the planet. Or even one orbiting an entirely different planet.

What's more, it's not like Venoms or Raiders are significantly safer than bikes - he's still standing on deck, fully exposed to enemy fire.

In any case, the thing for me is that I'd like to have the choice. Maybe one of my Archons would choose the traditional Venom. However, perhaps another would prefer a Skyboard, seeing it as a demonstration of his unsurpassed skill and reflexes. Then I might have a winged Haemonculus who flies behind his hulking creations, wings flapping gently behind him as he aims a Hexrifle.

Or perhaps a winged Archon who likes to traverse the sky with a pack of Scourges, swooping down like birds of prey to slaughter those pitiful fools, forever bound to the earth.


There are also other aspects, such as modelling. I for one would love to be able to model Archons, Haemonculi or whatever with wings or on skyboards and then be able to use them in-game. Or, more accurately, I'd like to be able to use the winged-HQ models I've already made. Especially now that FW has killed off the Corsair Prince, having presumably felt that they might otherwise exceed their allowed quota of fun. Rolling Eyes
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aurynn
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PostSubject: Re: Scourges and hellions after the FAQ - thoughts and feelings?   Mon Jul 03 2017, 19:44

Well I am currently building CWE units and Skyweavers from DE models, so thats why I don't really need those options.

But winged archon is OK perhaps. But bikes are cult thing. Archon can ride a Venom if he wants to. That double bike for succy is a nice idea too. It could look similar to what I am planning for the Skyweavers. I'd be OK with that.

Skyboard is a DE junkie skater stuff. DE rabble ride those. Sathonyx himself was a DE rabble. Even wyches look down upon them. Reavers are one thing but Skyboards is just low...
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PostSubject: Re: Scourges and hellions after the FAQ - thoughts and feelings?   Mon Jul 03 2017, 19:50

My boy Baron is amazing IDK your talking about, take it back!

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PostSubject: Re: Scourges and hellions after the FAQ - thoughts and feelings?   Mon Jul 03 2017, 19:52

I didnt say he isnt, but he IS DE-socially a rabble. The point was that he jumped the skyboard out of need. I don't think he would if he weren't cast out among the rabble.
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PostSubject: Re: Scourges and hellions after the FAQ - thoughts and feelings?   Mon Jul 03 2017, 19:54

lol, i loved him and i want to play with HQs that dont need vehicles Sad Evil or Very Mad

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PostSubject: Re: Scourges and hellions after the FAQ - thoughts and feelings?   Mon Jul 03 2017, 19:56

The thing is though, I think the base characters should be able to represent more than just the most basic one of their kind.

e.g. someone recently wanted to play a Succubus who'd risen from being a lowly beastmaster. A Skyboard would be perfect for that.

Likewise, even if Skyboards are associated more with the rabble, maybe that's exactly what you want from your Archon. Perhaps he didn't grow up as a noble but instead grew up on the streets and had to fight hard for everything he now owns.

@amishprn86 wrote:
lol, i loved him and i want to play with HQs that dont need vehicles Sad Evil or Very Mad


Ditto.
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aurynn
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PostSubject: Re: Scourges and hellions after the FAQ - thoughts and feelings?   Mon Jul 03 2017, 19:59

Interesting. Our views and reasoning might actually be opposite. I do think that generic (basic) character should represent the basic or most numerous of choices. The exceptional characters should be signature ones - named ones.
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PostSubject: Re: Scourges and hellions after the FAQ - thoughts and feelings?   Mon Jul 03 2017, 20:09

Name characters should be special, should have extra skills, like the Baron's SKyboard.

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PostSubject: Re: Scourges and hellions after the FAQ - thoughts and feelings?   Mon Jul 03 2017, 22:03

@aurynn wrote:
Was there? I have read first two and beginning of third book. Did I miss it or didn't got to it? Anyway, did the Winged Archon fly into battle with Scourges or tried to keep himself safe?
Actually i don't know anymore, all i remember is that he was obsessed with birds in general and lived in a huge bird cage-ish mansion.

After some research, it's actually in one of the short stories in the path bundle.
Bellathonis and the Shadow King.
His name is Malixian the mad.
He sends Bellathonis on a mission to procure some special bird.
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PostSubject: Re: Scourges and hellions after the FAQ - thoughts and feelings?   Tue Jul 04 2017, 07:03

Aaaah. I remember that one. Didnt finish reading this one either. Very Happy But yea... he was mad... as in mad beyond Archon standards. Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy 'nuff said.
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PostSubject: Re: Scourges and hellions after the FAQ - thoughts and feelings?   Tue Jul 04 2017, 07:22

Personally I'd love for my HQs to be more customizable as they'd give more options for creativity when modeling, and fleshing them out lorewise, let alone having them mesh with my army better. It just gives us more options with our HQs which is a good thing (Not to mention it'd allow our HQs to be a more mobile in a mobile army)

As for special characters being special, I agree. With special rules. I mean... We don't have a FAST moving Dark Eldar HQ at all (Best we got is 10in move with a drugged up Succubus) and that just seems wrong when a Craftworld HQ can move faster then any of ours you know?
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PostSubject: Re: Scourges and hellions after the FAQ - thoughts and feelings?   Tue Jul 04 2017, 08:19

What get sme is that, as far as I know, there are no official models for say, a Librarian on a bike. But the SM codex always has that option and players can kitbash if they want. There's no official model for a succubus on a jetbike or an Archon on a skyboard but do we get to kitbash? No chance!

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PostSubject: Re: Scourges and hellions after the FAQ - thoughts and feelings?   Tue Jul 04 2017, 08:21

I think that an Archon should only be able to get wings if at all and the succubus should be able to get a bike. Those belong to witch cults all she should be able to get one.

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PostSubject: Re: Scourges and hellions after the FAQ - thoughts and feelings?   Tue Jul 04 2017, 09:29

And who forbids us to kitbash an Archon on a bike or with wings and play him with Autarch rules? I am certainly doing exactly that. Archons are not Autarchs IMO and should not, really should not have the same options. Its redundant and unnecessary.
We have the options through keywords and Ynnari. What more do we want? Have three copies of the same army within Aeldari? Do we want Reavers be like Shining Spears? Scourges like hawks? I dont. :-)
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