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 vs AM conscript swarm

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Vailex
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PostSubject: vs AM conscript swarm   Sat Jul 01 2017, 17:30

o I have played against this list a few times now and It can be pretty difficult to deal with. This is the list in a nutshell

HQ
Yarrick
Iron Hand Straken
Ministorum Priest
Astropath
Celestine

2 x 50 man conscripts
1 Aegis defense line

3x Manticores
3x Wyverns
3x Taurex with autocannon and gatling guns

Scion Prime
2x Tempestus scions squads, 2 plasma guns each

yarrick and the buff crew are bubble wrapped with vehicles and 100 conscripts behind a defense line. Scions deep strike and shoot stuff. Celestine usually does act of faith crap to move 24" on the board and kill things. The artillery cares not for line of site and rerolls 1's to hit do to buff squad. The conscripts auto pass morale due to Yarrick and retreat only to get back in the fight during their turn. Manticores are usually hidden and protected behind LOS stuff along with the wyverns and the Taurax are in front of them for protection.

Its like this ball of death you cannot break through that is hyper cheap and pounds you anywhere on the table.

Thoughts?
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CptMetal
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PostSubject: Re: vs AM conscript swarm   Sat Jul 01 2017, 17:49

That's tough.
Maybe spam Mandrakes to kill the artillery?

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BloodyOdd
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PostSubject: Re: vs AM conscript swarm   Sat Jul 01 2017, 18:29

Mandrakes maybe? Razorwing Jetfighters for the conscripts?
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Vailex
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PostSubject: Re: vs AM conscript swarm   Sat Jul 01 2017, 19:27

Best thing to do maybe is ignore the conscripts at first. Not sure Mandrakes are going to do much to the vehicles and probably wont get close enough to do much. Razorwings Jetfighters and Ravagers should mess up the artillery from afar. Just hope you kill enough of them fast enough which would require quite a bit of luck. Manticores and Wyverns are no joke for the point cost.
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Bibitybopitybacon
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PostSubject: Re: vs AM conscript swarm   Sat Jul 01 2017, 19:36

Liquifier gun spam? 2 units of 5 wracks in a raider can have 4 each. If you have a haemy next to the raiders Lasguns wound them on 6s. I think coven might be the best bet for killing conscripts.
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PostSubject: Re: vs AM conscript swarm   Sat Jul 01 2017, 20:05

Birds, and if that doesn't work, more birds.

Spam beats spam and we have the best spam.

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PostSubject: Re: vs AM conscript swarm   Sat Jul 01 2017, 22:00

Birds actually lose to conscripts because they never lose more than 1 model from moral as long as the commissar is still alive at least
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The Red King
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PostSubject: Re: vs AM conscript swarm   Sat Jul 01 2017, 22:32

I'm pretty sure point for point conscripts are the best spam in the game.

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aurynn
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PostSubject: Re: vs AM conscript swarm   Sun Jul 02 2017, 00:47

Well the list is not unbeatable. I think we should be able to deal with it being superagressive. With this many units he is almost guaranteed to go second. I'd kill the Manticores T1 whatever list you play. And then go as the battle unfolds. Blocking Celestine with unnecessary units (she needs to keep within coherency with the 2 cherubs of hers, so try not to let enough room around anything you don't want her to assault). I am currently using a list with 3 tooled flyers, Venom and Raider with bloodbrides and succubus, 6 Reavers, 2 Ravagers and 10+5+5 Scourges to troll and mess his backfield. Should be doable with that.

It will be an uphill fight as it is a bit cheesy list, but its doable with various setups.
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PostSubject: Re: vs AM conscript swarm   Sun Jul 02 2017, 01:48

The 100 Conscripts isnt the problem, stay out of range turn 1-3 and kill everything else with long range DL's.

He has to take 2 turns to get in range to even shoot you. Have Many cheap units of Wyches in Raiders and a couple Succubus with some Razorwing Flocks as buffers.

This list in general is very strong but its not stupidly insane, its just like the 90 Gants with Biovores/Mawlock spam.

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PostSubject: Re: vs AM conscript swarm   Sun Jul 02 2017, 02:21

If only there were mechanics in the game that prevented people from bringing large numbers of weak, clumped up models unopposed. Like a weapon or something that has an area of effect instead of raw damage output. Maybe someday the science of game design will discover such a marvel of super-genius. These are dark times indeed.

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PostSubject: Re: vs AM conscript swarm   Sun Jul 02 2017, 03:08

Well, for what it's worth, you do have a more than reasonable chance of being able to focus fire on his artillery on turn 1, since, unless you're playing MSU to a ridiculous degree, you're almost guaranteed first turn. So, I'd start with that.
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PostSubject: Re: vs AM conscript swarm   Sun Jul 02 2017, 05:43

Yep, 12 DL and 4 blasters was able to kill 2 Storm Raven without any problems in 1 turn.

Another reason why Scourge army would be good, having 2 with Blasters and 1 with DLs and the other i was taking as Shardcarbines. If you opponent does something like this just DS them to kill the vehicles along with your Ravagers, You can try to kill as much as you can with just the ravagers turn 1 and not DS and see what happens also.

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yukondal
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PostSubject: Re: vs AM conscript swarm   Sun Jul 02 2017, 07:07

Scourge are great! I still like dark lances on the ravagers/razorwing for durability and BS after moving.

I haven't tried a full carbine squad yet but I'd love to
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Massaen
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PostSubject: Re: vs AM conscript swarm   Sun Jul 02 2017, 09:54

How many points is that and in what detachments?

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PostSubject: Re: vs AM conscript swarm   Sun Jul 02 2017, 14:14

There are a few things I can't follow in that list, but what I can see looks fairly nasty. Would be handy to see what points and detachments, and what an Astropath does.

I'm assuming it is 2000, with two Spearhead Detachments for the Astra Militarum and a Patrol Detachment for the Adeptus Ministorum.

The firepower from those tanks is pretty scary, and you would need to deal with them smartly. The mass Conscripts mean an aggressive charge is unlikely to be effective. If I was customising against that list, then it would look something like this:

DRUKHARI SPEARHEAD DETACHMENT

Archon (Agoniser)
Venom - transport for the Archon
5 Mandrakes
5 Mandrakes
Ravager (3 Dark Lances)
Ravager (3 Dark Lances)
Ravager (3 Dark Lances)
Ravager (3 Dark Lances)

ASURYANI AIR WING DETACHMENT
Crimson Hunter
Crimson Hunter
Crimson Hunter

ASURYANI BATTALION DETACHMENT
Autarch (Reaper Launcher)
Illic Nightspear
5 Rangers
5 Rangers
5 Rangers

Basic battle plan:
Sit back out of their 24" range for the first two turns
Ravagers and Autarch focus the Taurox Primes (assuming they can't see any Manticores) - ideally clearing a path for the Rangers and Illic Nightspear to snipe the character ball - should be able to kill nearly two per turn
Crimson Hunters focus the Manticores - should be able to kill one and a bit per turn
Mandrakes, Archon and Venom are aiming to mop up the Scion Primes and Celestine (may need some Ravager / Ranger help on turn 2)

If things go roughly to plan, their tanks should melt away fairly quickly, and while we don't have ideal units for dealing with all those Conscripts, almost everything has hard to hit, so they are hitting on 6+. If things don't go to plan, the Ravagers could melt away instead and the weight of Bolter fire will wear you down.

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PostSubject: Re: vs AM conscript swarm   Mon Jul 03 2017, 15:40

I was thinking of bringing 3 Ravagers, 2 Razowings jetfighters, some scourges, succubus, wyches, razorwing flock unit of 12 with beastmaster.

Focusing dark lances downfield should help enough with some lucky rolls. Getting rid of the artillery is key.
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PostSubject: Re: vs AM conscript swarm   Mon Jul 03 2017, 20:36

If you can do Crimson Hunters instead of Razorwings they will do much better. The extra 90 degree turn means they can stay in a position to hammer the artillery if it has terrain to hide behind.

Specically against that list, I see Scourges getting Wyverned out of existence, and Wyches suffering the same if they aren't in a vehicle. Razorwing Flocks are good as they are points inefficient for the vehicles to target.

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