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 4 x Dark Lance Scourges

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mightydoughnut
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PostSubject: 4 x Dark Lance Scourges   Tue Jun 27 2017, 11:20

They go 150 points a pop for 5-man tank buster sniper unit. They deep strike, so you can put them where you need them. What do you guys think? Is it worth it?

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Dawnstone
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PostSubject: Re: 4 x Dark Lance Scourges   Tue Jun 27 2017, 11:35

I struggle to see what they offer compared to the Ravager. 1 extra shot is somewhat offset by the Ravager's ability to move and shoot with no penalty, and the Ravager has far better survivability than 5 t3 4+ save bodies in this edition. The only situation where I think taking the Scourges is a good option is if you don't own enough Ravagers and need more long range darklight (like me tongue )
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Painjunky
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PostSubject: Re: 4 x Dark Lance Scourges   Tue Jun 27 2017, 11:55

@mightydoughnut wrote:
They go 150 points a pop for 5-man tank buster sniper unit. They deep strike, so you can put them where you need them. What do you guys think? Is it worth it?

In my exp a DL ravager for 5pts more is vastly superior.
Its much tougher and can move and shoot without penalty.
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Count Adhemar
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PostSubject: Re: 4 x Dark Lance Scourges   Tue Jun 27 2017, 11:59

If using Ynnari then the Scourges are potentially a better option due to SfD, but otherwise I'd agree that Ravagers are better.

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closecraig
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PostSubject: Re: 4 x Dark Lance Scourges   Tue Jun 27 2017, 12:08

For me the fact that scourges are deployed from deepstrike is the real winner. My meta is currently filled with some fairly horrendous alpha strikers (3 commanders with missile pods and 2 gun drones is a fun one...) that absolutely wreck our vehicles on the turn they arrive.

Being able to 'protect' a valuable anti-tank unit in this way is ideal.
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Drugo
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PostSubject: Re: 4 x Dark Lance Scourges   Tue Jun 27 2017, 12:18

Or they could be inside a Raider looking all pretty, 100 points more than a ravager but a lot more survivable (once the raider explodes they still get out and shoot some more) and 5 lances vs 3.
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Azdrubael
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PostSubject: Re: 4 x Dark Lance Scourges   Tue Jun 27 2017, 12:53

I think Blasters are more intuitive weapons on Scourges.

They can deepstrike and shoot, use the Assault weapon to full effect, generally cheaper. Solarite isnt as crap now, with Venom Blade.

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Dark Elf Dave
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PostSubject: Re: 4 x Dark Lance Scourges   Tue Jun 27 2017, 13:38

As mentioned above the deep strike rule is useful if you know you wont be getting the first turn...if you are up against an army that could take out ravagers with ease then you may never get to use them. Scourge will always be there on turn one in the right place.

I also feel blasters might be the better option...but are blasters on their own enough to take out a tank? Doesn't seem like it to me.

I am not crazy about the points cost of our weapons.

Dissies feel over priced...should be 20-25 pts
Heat Lances are very overpriced...should be 15-20pts
Haywire don't bother
Blasters are good for 15 pts
Dark Lance is great for 20pts
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Quauchtemoc
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PostSubject: Re: 4 x Dark Lance Scourges   Tue Jun 27 2017, 14:35

@Dark Elf Dave wrote:
As mentioned above the deep strike rule is useful if you know you wont be getting the first turn...if you are up against an army that could take out ravagers with ease then you may never get to use them.  Scourge will always be there on turn one in the right place.

I also feel blasters might be the better option...but are blasters on their own enough to take out a tank?  Doesn't seem like it to me.

I am not crazy about the points cost of our weapons.

Dissies feel over priced...should be 20-25 pts
Heat Lances are very overpriced...should be 15-20pts
Haywire don't bother
Blasters are good for 15 pts
Dark Lance is great for 20pts

Quite agree, Splinter Cannon ar good too, lukily the 3 good weapon can be put almost everywhere
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Drugo
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PostSubject: Re: 4 x Dark Lance Scourges   Tue Jun 27 2017, 14:53

The difference between d3 and d6 is pretty substantial, and even deepstriking Lances will give you more options than blasters, 18" means you will have to be pretty close to what you want to kill, 36" will give you range enough to find a perfect and safe(ish) spot that will allow them to shoot and avoid a certain amount of return fire, let alone being able to sit pretty and keep firing without moving the next turn.
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WildCandy
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PostSubject: Re: 4 x Dark Lance Scourges   Tue Jun 27 2017, 15:10

What I personally been thinking is why take trueborn with blasters or dark lances when scourges do it better with about ten more points...
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Cerve
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PostSubject: Re: 4 x Dark Lance Scourges   Tue Jun 27 2017, 15:26

Ravager, Scourges....why not both? I mean, one is FA and the other is HS. Why I have to choose?
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|Meavar
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PostSubject: Re: 4 x Dark Lance Scourges   Tue Jun 27 2017, 15:30

@Cerve wrote:
Ravager, Scourges....why not both? I mean, one is FA and the other is HS. Why I have to choose?
Because they are both expensive and I do not have enough points in my army for both (and not enough money in my pocket either for that matter)
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Logan Frost
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PostSubject: Re: 4 x Dark Lance Scourges   Tue Jun 27 2017, 16:09

I played a game with a 3 dissie ravager and 2x4 lances scourges vs CSM.
My enemy was scared s**tless of the ravager and left the pigeon guys free to pop rhinos for 2 turns before realizing the threat they were.
My guess is, since they are less durable and hit on 4+ when they deepstrike, they are not considered as dangerous.
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mightydoughnut
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PostSubject: Re: 4 x Dark Lance Scourges   Tue Jun 27 2017, 17:24

I mostly play Ynnari, so they can easily shot twice each turn. Thanks for all the feedback, gave me a lot of insight.

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Britishgrotesque
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PostSubject: Re: 4 x Dark Lance Scourges   Tue Jun 27 2017, 19:00

I can see the appeal of scourges with dark Lances being a counter to alpha striking armies

They might also be useful depending on terrain, in cities of death they would have a 2+ cover save.

These all seem situational to me. I'll probably be buying a ravager before going into these guys, more reliable overall.
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Gherma
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PostSubject: Re: 4 x Dark Lance Scourges   Tue Jun 27 2017, 19:30

I would like to add an "option" to this topic: what do you think about 5 corsair cloud dancers with 4 dark lances?

They cost 60 points more than 5 scourges, but they have the double of wounds, they are faster (M18) and in short range everyone of them can shoot D6 poisoned pseudo rending shots.

I think they can be an interesting alternative.

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mightydoughnut
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PostSubject: Re: 4 x Dark Lance Scourges   Tue Jun 27 2017, 19:34

Where did you get the rules for corsairs?

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Daevohk
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PostSubject: Re: 4 x Dark Lance Scourges   Tue Jun 27 2017, 20:23

@mightydoughnut wrote:
Where did you get the rules for corsairs?

Forge World Xenos index has a handful of corsair units, they've mostly been gutted though.
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PostSubject: Re: 4 x Dark Lance Scourges   Tue Jun 27 2017, 21:03

I tried Lance Scourges out of the exactly same reason as were stated here. However my opponents just relish an opportunity like this to remove 4 of my lances easily. I even tried to run them in 10 for ablative wounds and split fire poison. That was more fun as they got charged by Heldrake and in next 2 turns killed it. Point for point it was more or less even, but I did target the Heldrake every time I fell back (I know I didnt have to, but I hate them). Thus depriving my army of 4 lances where they were actually needed.

I would field a full unit with Lances if you are set this way, but Blasters are better IMO for obvious reasons. However I consider Blaster an overpriced and needless weapon in our arsenal. I save up points for blasters wherever I can in favour of Dissies. Much more versatile and Blaster is better only in very few cases. Bad enough we need to play with chancey Lances.

Haywire... well... I know you all smirk at them, but you dont play against the likes of Achilles I guess. I find having a Haywire potential in the army nothing to dismiss right away.
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Trystis
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PostSubject: Re: 4 x Dark Lance Scourges   Tue Jun 27 2017, 22:25

@Count Adhemar wrote:
If using Ynnari then the Scourges are potentially a better option due to SfD, but otherwise I'd agree that Ravagers are better.

Based on a a couple of games I have found this to be the case. Ravager seem more durable, and deadly for the points. I do admit I'm enjoying ravagers more than ever before nowadays. They feel like they should based on their fluff for the first time in a long time. My opponents hate mine which is always a good sign.

Scourge though are always so vulnerable for the points it seems. I still think Scourges are still good, but I'm having trouble finding a place for them in my lists. I'm beginning to think they may be best run with default gear lol, and maybe some cheap upgrades on the solarite. I'm waiting to see how other are using them for now.
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PostSubject: Re: 4 x Dark Lance Scourges   Wed Jun 28 2017, 06:57

You take Scourges b.c of DS, DS says you counted as moved, so DL are almost pointless Sad

Units way in the back like Dark Reapers, Biovores, Warp Hunters or others that dont need LOS to shoot you hiding behind a wall, this is what Scourges are for. so Blasters or Heat Lances would be more ideal.

4 in a Raider can work if you wanted a DL theme list sure, and for semi comp games it more likely will work out, just dont get upset if they always miss 1/2 the time or die really fast.

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PostSubject: Re: 4 x Dark Lance Scourges   Wed Jun 28 2017, 10:03

I played 4 DL scourges and a Dissie ravager in one list. I took lances on scourges because only boats can carry dissies (and they work great). If you doubt it, just check mathhammer, 10 dissie shots do almost the same damage as 10 lance shots. So 30 points per gun is a fair price.
So my scourges compensate the lack of damage with their lances. I wouldn't say that they shots are wasted after deep strike 4+ is still a good chance. Then soulbirst is a pure happiness.
Blasters seem to have lack of damage, you can't be sure that you will destroy yor target. However blasters look good on warriors as an auxillary weapon.

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amishprn86
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PostSubject: Re: 4 x Dark Lance Scourges   Wed Jun 28 2017, 10:22

As Ynnari you look at everything completely differently, one of the reason why its such a cool rules set.

But there is no more Soulburst its only SfD now Cool

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Count Adhemar
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PostSubject: Re: 4 x Dark Lance Scourges   Wed Jun 28 2017, 10:26

@amishprn86 wrote:
But there is no more Soulburst its only SfD now Cool

SfD allows you to take a Soulburst action.

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