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 Best way to fill 4 and 9 Transport Capacity?

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the_scotsman
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PostSubject: Best way to fill 4 and 9 Transport Capacity?   Mon Jun 26 2017, 17:36

It's becoming highly evident to me that A) everything needs to be transported and B) our transports are highly efficient and capable, and that works fine for my five and ten man squads.

The problem comes with HQs: our darn transports never have the extra slots to fit them you get in Starweavers, Chimeras, Wave Serpents etc, and very few of our units work well at 9 models.

So, besides the obvious but expensive Court, how does an enterprising archon make use of a Venom with 4 free slots carrying a Succubus or Haemie, or a Raider with 9 free slots?

Biggest problem is you just can't take four of anything. Certain squads like Scourges and Trueborn work at 9 but any of those plus an HQ makes an obvious target.

I know you can do Haemie+3 Grots, but Grots ain't what they used to be. Can Beasts board transports? Curious to see what others are running.
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Woozl
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PostSubject: Re: Best way to fill 4 and 9 Transport Capacity?   Mon Jun 26 2017, 17:51

9 wyches and a succubus actually works this edition. They have a much much better chance to stay in vehicle until they want to charge, and then actually get out and make the charge.

I've also done 4 grots + haemi + succubus alongside other boats full of units. Then get out near each other and reshuffle where you want them to go.
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Shadows Revenge
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PostSubject: Re: Best way to fill 4 and 9 Transport Capacity?   Mon Jun 26 2017, 18:10

Ive been focusing too much on my GSC to really delve into the Dark Eldar index as of yet, but from what Ive looked at I would almost use my HQs as support units. Archons make a great deterrent to being charged with heroic intervention. Succubi can always hop along with a small group of bloodbrides, and you always have the incubi pulling their old bodyguard weight

I would probably just have him jack someone's transport and have him go run in solo. A decent kitted out Character is no slouch in combat.

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the_scotsman
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PostSubject: Re: Best way to fill 4 and 9 Transport Capacity?   Mon Jun 26 2017, 18:34

I tried the 9 wyches plus succubus in my last game and I really felt the loss of those 2 extra Hydra gauntlets when trying to kill things, that's what prompted me to make the thread.

I've had great success with the succubus I just think it's incredibly vital to aim to go first if possible and minimize your drops. So I may see how well 5 incubi work in a Raider with her and just ditch the last 4 slots to avoid making a giant target.
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Woozl
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PostSubject: Re: Best way to fill 4 and 9 Transport Capacity?   Mon Jun 26 2017, 18:36

@the_scotsman wrote:
I tried the 9 wyches plus succubus in my last game and I really felt the loss of those 2 extra Hydra gauntlets when trying to kill things, that's what prompted me to make the thread.

I've had great success with the succubus I just think it's incredibly vital to aim to go first if possible and minimize your drops. So I may see how well 5 incubi work in a Raider with her and just ditch the last 4 slots to avoid making a giant target.

Yeah I felt the same way about 10 wracks with 3 liquifiers vs. 2 with a haemi.

I agree with the target confusion idea.
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Ghost
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PostSubject: Re: Best way to fill 4 and 9 Transport Capacity?   Mon Jun 26 2017, 20:17

Incubi, don't lose anything for not having a squad of 10.

I've been doing 8 Incubi, succubus and Archon in a raider.
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mynamelegend
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PostSubject: Re: Best way to fill 4 and 9 Transport Capacity?   Mon Jun 26 2017, 21:10

Incubi are basically the only option. Our army's been designed to have squad sizes of 5 or 10 and nothing in between. (This is but one of myriad reasons why our HQs are so bad)
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Cerve
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PostSubject: Re: Best way to fill 4 and 9 Transport Capacity?   Mon Jun 26 2017, 22:37

You can pay 5 men of 1 squad (and only one) and deploy 4 of them. That helps a lot if you wanna fit your hq into a Venom.

Anyway I prefer use a Succubus with M10 with any Beasts unit.
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RedRegicide
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PostSubject: Re: Best way to fill 4 and 9 Transport Capacity?   Tue Jun 27 2017, 00:04

Off topic: do succubi give beasts leadership?

I've been running hq only venom, that follows behind the others, but it's dangerous and not as fluid.

Grots for raiders, sslyth for venoms are my best guess.

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Cerve
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PostSubject: Re: Best way to fill 4 and 9 Transport Capacity?   Tue Jun 27 2017, 00:17

@RedRegicide wrote:
Off topic: do succubi give beasts leadership?


Nope, but Beasts can cover her. Move 10" is enought to pair with a Beastmaster's unit (Clawed Fiend move 10" too, Razorwings and Khymerae 12").
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the_scotsman
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PostSubject: Re: Best way to fill 4 and 9 Transport Capacity?   Tue Jun 27 2017, 02:08

Oh I have had zero problems getting my hqs to make their points back in the games I've played between buffs and combat. Archon+Sslyth+a Medusa or two is a mean little shooting unit, and a succubus plus a gaggle of wych cult units does work and takes out characters.

Either way, I was mostly trying to just maximise my transport drops while avoiding having a huge spike in value aboard one in in particular. I think a Raider may be the way to roll for that, pairing a five man squad with an HQ to be equal to the ten man in other raiders.

Secondary question: is two five wych squads better than one ten? The extra Hekatrix seems more valuable than the extra wych weapon. Only downside is you cant maximise your +A drug.
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Dark Elf Dave
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PostSubject: Re: Best way to fill 4 and 9 Transport Capacity?   Tue Jun 27 2017, 09:50

Can someone clear something up for me...

I have heard that there are contradicting rules for under strength units in the rule book.

Apparently it says that in power points play you must pay the full price of the unit regardless of whether you have enough models to field the min size unit but it says in matched play you only pay for the models you field.

This topic is probably the main one I am still trying to get my head around. Kabs and Wyches are weaker when under the 10 models so if you drop one model to allow for your HQ to hitch a raider ride then you lose out on a heavy weapon or gladiator weapon.

8 or 9 Incubi seems like too many points.

At the moment all I am really considering is taking x8 Wracks with a Heamy and Archon in a Raider together...I would also consider swapping the Archon for a Succubus.
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Count Adhemar
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PostSubject: Re: Best way to fill 4 and 9 Transport Capacity?   Tue Jun 27 2017, 10:01

I can't see anything in the rules about Power Levels and under-strength units but pg 242 of the rulebook tells you that in matched play you can take fewer than the minimum unit size but still have to pay for the full unit.

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|Meavar
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PostSubject: Re: Best way to fill 4 and 9 Transport Capacity?   Tue Jun 27 2017, 10:58

So you pay what you get, unless you have an "illegal unit"
example
1-4 incubi: you pay for 5 and cannot have more than 1 unit
5 incubi: you pay for 5
6 incubi: you pay for 6 (you can have units of 6-10 and pay for each model even if with power points you would have to go in steps of 5)
7 incubi you pay for 7
8=> 8 etc
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Count Adhemar
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PostSubject: Re: Best way to fill 4 and 9 Transport Capacity?   Tue Jun 27 2017, 11:11

For points play it only matters if you have less than the minimum size unit. So for a unit size of 5-15, for example, you always have to pay for at least 5 models, even if you only have 1-4. If you have more than 5 you just pay the additional cost per model as per the datasheet.

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Dark Elf Dave
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PostSubject: Re: Best way to fill 4 and 9 Transport Capacity?   Tue Jun 27 2017, 11:33

That is how I thought it was...and in fairness it makes sense because otherwise you could manipulate using under strength units to get more command points.

It is still frustrating that I can't use x4 Incubi with an Archon in a Venom without paying 18 points for an Incubi I wont be fielding. While I appreciate why the rules are the way they are, I feel like units like Incubi that are often used as bodyguards should have been allowed in units of 4+ so that you could use them, the Archon and the Venom without a penalty.
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RedRegicide
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PostSubject: Re: Best way to fill 4 and 9 Transport Capacity?   Tue Jun 27 2017, 11:59

2 units of wyches is my preference. Fills two slots, better for moral. I give one group +1A with an agoniser, and the other +1S with a power sword

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|Meavar
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PostSubject: Re: Best way to fill 4 and 9 Transport Capacity?   Tue Jun 27 2017, 13:30

They should have made the venom 6 and the raider 12 like nearly all other transports.
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Dirtydeeds
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PostSubject: Re: Best way to fill 4 and 9 Transport Capacity?   Tue Jun 27 2017, 14:17

You could also give that HQ his/her own transport.
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Count Adhemar
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PostSubject: Re: Best way to fill 4 and 9 Transport Capacity?   Tue Jun 27 2017, 14:51

@Dirtydeeds wrote:
You could also give that HQ his/her own transport.

With the accompanying 1 in 6 chance of instant death if it is destroyed.

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Duke Daedric
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PostSubject: Re: Best way to fill 4 and 9 Transport Capacity?   Tue Jun 27 2017, 20:02

However it would be nice when fielding Wytches that we can pay for 10 models with upgrades and field 9 in a Raider witha a Succubus.. Wink
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Dark Elf Dave
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PostSubject: Re: Best way to fill 4 and 9 Transport Capacity?   Wed Jun 28 2017, 12:36

No way am I giving the HQ his own transport when I have only taking the HQ for extra command points. My preferred choice of HQ is the Heamy because of the T buff. I am only considering taking the additional Archon for the extra command points.

A venom for him would be a waste.

People are going to be taking Drazhar with Incubi which will have to be in a Raider now so I can see people either having additional Incubi x9 or just having an under occupied Raider...not happy with either of these situations.

6 capacity would have been much better for us.
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Dawnstone
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PostSubject: Re: Best way to fill 4 and 9 Transport Capacity?   Wed Jun 28 2017, 14:50

Honestly this is such a pain I'm thinking of giving my Succubus the +2 movement drug and letting her walk. I'm sure she could do with the exercise.
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Quauchtemoc
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PostSubject: Re: Best way to fill 4 and 9 Transport Capacity?   Wed Jun 28 2017, 14:52

The Archon court are good to fill Venom and Raider too, cause they are limited to 4 models per Archon
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the_scotsman
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PostSubject: Re: Best way to fill 4 and 9 Transport Capacity?   Wed Jun 28 2017, 21:16

I've had some really excellent success running the Archon with a court of four medusae. The others are ok except maybe the lhamean but critically they do things we have easy access to in other places. The medusa competes only with Mandrakes as a solid anti MEQ shooter and pound for pound a Medusa near an archon out shoots Mandrakes and gives you a solid if expensive HQ slot.
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