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 Razorwing flock spam - its amazing

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Massaen
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PostSubject: Re: Razorwing flock spam - its amazing   Sat Jul 01 2017, 08:10

Yeah, who then ban you for behaving like an ass

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mynamelegend
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PostSubject: Re: Razorwing flock spam - its amazing   Sat Jul 01 2017, 09:48

I'm trying to think of any time, in all of world history, where "I'll get drunk and act like a dick, that'll show the Man!" has worked at its intended goal of popping monocles as opposed to just making you into a drunk dick.

I'm picturing it right now. Loud slurred unintelligible gibberish as a careless hand crushes a couple of models and topples terrain midway through turn 3, requiring the game end prematurely and giving no clear winner. Gibberish turns to cry-laughing angry gibberish. Kevin Rountree is there. He falls to his knees, tears glistening in his eyes.
"We were wrong about everything. So very wrong. From our ivory tower we couldn't see the common man, and we lost our way! I am giving the order right now - 8th edition is henceforth banned, all hail the return of 7th! Thank you, drunk man ruining it for everyone, truly you've shown us the error of our ways!"
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Count Adhemar
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PostSubject: Re: Razorwing flock spam - its amazing   Sat Jul 01 2017, 10:36

I really must have the slaves install that Like button!

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PartZebra
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PostSubject: Re: Razorwing flock spam - its amazing   Sat Jul 01 2017, 11:03

These discussions are the reason I came to The Dark City.
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Massaen
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PostSubject: Re: Razorwing flock spam - its amazing   Sat Jul 01 2017, 11:19

@Count Adhemar wrote:
I really must have the slaves install that Like button!

Amen! lol!

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PostSubject: Re: Razorwing flock spam - its amazing   Sat Jul 01 2017, 19:20

I think the satire of the comment might've been lost on some people...

Razorwings seem pretty good, but I have to say it was only today that I realised how powerful Clawed Fiends are. A unit of 6 Clawed Fiends is only 190pts-ish, have the Beast Master follow up behind for those sweet re-rolls. That's 190pts for 24 T5 wounds and 30 Str 5 AP 1 Dmg 2 attacks with movement 10. Throw in that 60pt beast master for a straight 250pt blender bus that is one hell of a distraction.

For bonus points, use Yvraine to Soulburst them for 60 attacks. Against T8 3+ Sv with beastmaster re-rolls that's 7-8-ish unsaved wounds. So 14 damage.
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amishprn86
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PostSubject: Re: Razorwing flock spam - its amazing   Sat Jul 01 2017, 19:28

Yeah, i have 3 now, i need to get 2 more boxes of Crypt Flayers so i can have 9.

30 Flocks, 9 Clawed Fiends, 20 Khymerae's and 2 Beastmasters is looking fun to play.

The only thing missing..... the Baron Crying or Very sad I miss that guy so much.

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PostSubject: Re: Razorwing flock spam - its amazing   Mon Jul 03 2017, 13:09

I actually tried them out properly at the first big UK GT here, won all 5 games and came 3rd due to only winning my 3rd game 12-8 vs horde orks (tough match on 1 objective each!)






They worked really well, I used 149 of them I might trim some down for some other bits but the experiment was a success. Just waiting for the nerf to come now Smile.
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amishprn86
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PostSubject: Re: Razorwing flock spam - its amazing   Mon Jul 03 2017, 13:18

OMFG lol..... How long was your Dice rolling steps?

I got 30 in combat and i was rolling over 1k dice....... (tho i have a Cronos, Beastmaster and Yncarne for re-roll hits, 1's to wound and 6+++ save)

PS: Gratz on the wins!

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PostSubject: Re: Razorwing flock spam - its amazing   Mon Jul 03 2017, 13:22

Yeah I had beastmaster, farseer with doom, yncarne etc so was lots of dice rolling, got 50 to swing vs a knight for 400 attacks rerolling everything - luckily I was able to always keep batches of dice ready with a tray and my opponents kindly helped out.
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amishprn86
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PostSubject: Re: Razorwing flock spam - its amazing   Mon Jul 03 2017, 13:22

What was you opponents reactions/take on your list?

PS: Can you give us a full list?

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Count Adhemar
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PostSubject: Re: Razorwing flock spam - its amazing   Mon Jul 03 2017, 13:24

@amishprn86 wrote:
What was you opponents reactions/take on your list?

That was going to be my first question too. I think if I turned up at a table and saw 150 flocks I'd shake your hand and head to the bar.

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PostSubject: Re: Razorwing flock spam - its amazing   Mon Jul 03 2017, 13:46

@Count Adhemar wrote:
@amishprn86 wrote:
What was you opponents reactions/take on your list?

That was going to be my first question too. I think if I turned up at a table and saw 150 flocks I'd shake your hand and head to the bar.

Same here , no point to play against such an ininteresting list. And like the Sister of Battles Acolythes its almost sure they will patch it sooner or later.

And too be honest i'm not sure about the point of this topic. Razorwing spam is op , but their is nothing to understand here in term of strategie, its just a game design mistake
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PostSubject: Re: Razorwing flock spam - its amazing   Mon Jul 03 2017, 14:09

Those are not SOB they are Inquisitors.

But Almost any army can spam Swarms that has them for cheap.

Necron Scarabs are Dbl the points but they also hit on 3's and wound on 4's and 5's (never 6's) are LD 10. SUre you might only have 100 compare to 150 but its still 400 wounds to eat though.

Then there is Nids, they have a Fly swarms too, but for a couple more points they get a 4 shot pistol, again you'll only have like 100-120 compare to 150-200 but with Primes, Boivores and Mawlocks, Nids might be able to do it just as well as DE due to better support (No LoS mortal wound shooting tath doesnt need to hit and DS Mortal wounds for all units within distance that cant be locked down due to already being lock down by swarms).


If anything Razorwing Flocks are just going to go up to 12pts. Like all other swarms.

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Quauchtemoc
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PostSubject: Re: Razorwing flock spam - its amazing   Mon Jul 03 2017, 14:18

@amishprn86 wrote:
Those are not SOB they are Inquisitors.

But Almost any army can spam Swarms that has them for cheap.

Necron Scarabs are Dbl the points but they also hit on 3's and wound on 4's and 5's (never 6's) are LD 10. SUre you might only have 100 compare to 150 but its still 400 wounds to eat though.

Then there is Nids, they have a Fly swarms too, but for a couple more points they get a 4 shot pistol, again you'll only have like 100-120 compare to 150-200 but with Primes, Boivores and Mawlocks, Nids might be able to do it just as well as DE due to better support (No LoS mortal wound shooting tath doesnt need to hit and DS Mortal wounds for all units within distance that cant be locked down due to already being lock down by swarms).


If anything Razorwing Flocks are just going to go up to 12pts. Like all other swarms.

Ok didnt knew about the other, but thats still clearly something they will have to patch if they care at least a bit about competitive play
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RedRegicide
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PostSubject: Re: Razorwing flock spam - its amazing   Mon Jul 03 2017, 14:49

I think it's hilarious haha. But yeah, you're right, running this list at a couple big ones vs other cheese is a good laugh but I hope they patch it soon, along with other cheese. Want to use some other nicer models too

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PostSubject: Re: Razorwing flock spam - its amazing   Mon Jul 03 2017, 20:02

What is cheese exactly? Something you don't like? I love swarms. They're the ridiculous stunt this game needs to keep me interested. Nothing is more boring than "DROP PLASMA DROP PLASMA DROP PLASMA DROP PLASMA oh you didn't get turn 1? Guess you lose." This is the answer to that.

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PostSubject: Re: Razorwing flock spam - its amazing   Mon Jul 03 2017, 20:16

lol, tho i do see some of his points i also see it as a "Hoard style army"

Remember part of the game is a "discuss with your opponent what type of game you want" in tournaments that is already given to you as "take the most broken army list you can to win"

So if you dont like Flocks or other cheese in tournaments then tournaments are not for you lol.

Just my 0.02c

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PostSubject: Re: Razorwing flock spam - its amazing   Mon Jul 03 2017, 20:33

@amishprn86 wrote:
lol, tho i do see some of his points i also see it as a "Hoard style army"

Remember part of the game is a "discuss with your opponent what type of game you want" in tournaments that is already given to you as "take the most broken army list you can to win"

So if you dont like Flocks or other cheese in tournaments then tournaments are not for you lol.

Just my 0.02c


Well of course you expect to see broken stuff on tournament and its fine, but if broken list are boring to play/face then i think it could be a problem
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PostSubject: Re: Razorwing flock spam - its amazing   Mon Jul 03 2017, 20:57

Honestly, I think tournaments as a feasible thing for 40k died in the dumpster fire that was 7th. 8th did not try to resurrect it. It might be feasible for an army list out there to counter infinity Brimstone Horrors, but that list will have absolutely no chance against Triple Knights. Tournaments are simply not playable if every fight just boils down to rock-paper-scissors between idiotic twink lists like they did in 7th and, evidently, still do in 8th. Ugh, why couldn't I get the days of 5th edition and TAC armies back? I liked going to tournaments then. Even in 6th I could enjoy myself in them. My kingdom for a return to the time when FOCs mattered!

With any luck they'll make good on their promise to try and unfuck it a bit and we'll see something tournament-playable in a year and a half or so, but I rather doubt it as long as the lingering stench of 7th goes unflushed. Unless they axe the entire "every army in 7th will be playable in 8th!" thing and the resultant "I feel that 12 Fast Attack choices at the cost of 2 HQs is fair" issues that birb-spam relies on, there's no hope.

*Sighs* At least there's no more 2++ rerollable invisible immortal deathstars running around anymore. Small blessings, I guess.
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PostSubject: Re: Razorwing flock spam - its amazing   Mon Jul 03 2017, 21:51

People who hated tournament lists didn't get how they operated in the gestalt. When I could roll up to a tourney and win more than half my games with pure DE you know it's not as broken as people say. As the kids say, get gud.

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PostSubject: Re: Razorwing flock spam - its amazing   Mon Jul 03 2017, 22:05

Rolling Eyes
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PostSubject: Re: Razorwing flock spam - its amazing   Tue Jul 04 2017, 02:47

5th was just as bad, you still only saw 3-4 units used and spammed from each army and vehicles/skimmers were ridiculous compare to how they are now (even DE spammed venoms and Wyches w/ HWG).

Did a couple small tournaments (as i started in 5th came from fantasy) and nothing has changed (at least from what ive seen).

Players did back then and will always continue to pick only the best possible way to win (which is ok b.c thats the point of a tournament).


Tho i'd rather fight a hoard of Flocks any day compare to Deathstars of 7th and some of the Vehicle spam of 5th (IG and SM vehicle spammed so good)

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PostSubject: Re: Razorwing flock spam - its amazing   Tue Jul 04 2017, 03:01

See Death Stars never bothered me. I always felt like I had a fighting chance thanks to my maneuverability. Death Stars were just so cumbersome. Now, I can get tabled turn 1 if I'm not super careful with list construction.

Also I feel like a proud father looking at all those birbs. I have created a monster, and I love it.

edit: After looking over the Dark Eldar groups and seeing how many other people are doing this, I feel so cozy. This list is such delicious serendipitous revenge against GW for making Lelith a Ynnari and blowing up Biel-Tan :3 Not because it blows "the most balanced version of 40k" line out of the water, although that is fabulous. It's that every single madman running this thing and proving my point is doing it with the same Zombicide Murder of Crowz proxies and either 3rd party or 3D printed 40mm bases. This list is going to be all over tournament tables and GW isn't going to make a thin dime off it while Guillotine Games sells out of bird models. A drop in the bucket compared to the Dark Imperium sales perhaps, but the point stands. You can take my fluff, GW, but those dollars... those dollars are gone Twisted Evil

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PostSubject: Re: Razorwing flock spam - its amazing   Tue Jul 04 2017, 07:03

@amishprn86 wrote:
5th was just as bad, you still only saw 3-4 units used and spammed from each army and vehicles/skimmers were ridiculous compare to how they are now (even DE spammed venoms and Wyches w/ HWG).

Did a couple small tournaments (as i started in 5th came from fantasy) and nothing has changed (at least from what ive seen).

Players did back then and will always continue to pick only the best possible way to win (which is ok b.c thats the point of a tournament).


Tho i'd rather fight a hoard of Flocks any day compare to Deathstars of 7th and some of the Vehicle spam of 5th (IG and SM vehicle spammed so good)


No way. The 5th was way more interesting in the competitive scene. The thing is not "what is more broken", but how much is this boring! Roll a thousands of dice with reroll is BORING...I don't really care if you will win or no, I just don't wanna pass my time about waiting my opponent's rolls without not skill at all.

It's just boring. And I will never spend my money for a silly competition like that. I hope that GW will fix these things soon. There's a difference between "broken lists" (which are fine), and "broken boring lists" (which are not!). Of course if you go into torunament you will facing a lot of broken lists, but the problem is that now you actually feel bored for game mechanics. Not for the list itself. Because as you said, anyone can swarm. But jeez, those lists are way worse than a classic green tide by far! To many dice rolls, to much time spent in waiting the rolls....a lot of games are cutting down the number of dice rolled.....


....and then there's GW...

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