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 Razorwing flock spam - its amazing

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Tzelok
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PostSubject: Re: Razorwing flock spam - its amazing   Tue Jul 25 2017, 18:12

Yea - I never planned on spamming them, but I did buy some so I could bubblewrap. At this point, I don't see myself using them - I'd rather use the points to get some hellions/mandrakes/more warriors/anything else in my lists.

Happy the spam list is dead though, it was pretty silly.

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amishprn86
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PostSubject: Re: Razorwing flock spam - its amazing   Tue Jul 25 2017, 19:06

They did nerf SM flyers tho.......

You LOSE if you have ONLY flyers on the table.. People were doing 7 Fliers and 1 HQ lists, or 6 fliers with 1hq and 3 heavies etc..

those lists can NOT be played now, if someone takes 1500pts of Flyers, you only need to kill 500pts to win the game.


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Mppqlmd
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PostSubject: Re: Razorwing flock spam - its amazing   Tue Jul 25 2017, 20:31

@amishprn86 wrote:
They did nerf SM flyers tho.......

You LOSE if you have ONLY flyers on the table.. People were doing 7 Fliers and 1 HQ lists, or 6 fliers with 1hq and 3 heavies etc..

those lists can NOT be played now, if someone takes 1500pts of Flyers, you only need to kill 500pts to win the game.

As i said, they nerfed the spam, not the models. If you're not spamming those flyers, then their power has stayed exactly the same.
With RW, everyone is struck by the nerf, not only the spammer. So big difference here.
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amishprn86
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PostSubject: Re: Razorwing flock spam - its amazing   Tue Jul 25 2017, 22:10

@Mppqlmd wrote:
@amishprn86 wrote:
They did nerf SM flyers tho.......

You LOSE if you have ONLY flyers on the table.. People were doing 7 Fliers and 1 HQ lists, or 6 fliers with 1hq and 3 heavies etc..

those lists can NOT be played now, if someone takes 1500pts of Flyers, you only need to kill 500pts to win the game.

As i said, they nerfed the spam, not the models. If you're not spamming those flyers, then their power has stayed exactly the same.
With RW, everyone is struck by the nerf, not only the spammer. So big difference here.


Birds were literally 40% the cost of ALL other swarms, it was a given it was a typo, players are mad b.c they abused a typo and and now it doesnt work "as well" when it is fixed but they still are perfectly viable....... ok

Fliers didnt have any points mistakes so why would they change them?

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Painjunky
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PostSubject: Re: Razorwing flock spam - its amazing   Tue Jul 25 2017, 22:23

To balance them.

People spammed stormravens because they are so cheap for what you get.
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amishprn86
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PostSubject: Re: Razorwing flock spam - its amazing   Tue Jul 25 2017, 23:13

@Painjunky wrote:
To balance them.

People spammed stormravens because they are so cheap for what you get.

They didnt need the same type of balance. Storm Ravens are not cheap tho, they are 300pts+

A Tantalus is 350 and IMO is just as good as a storm Raven, we can spam those easily.

Just b.c 1 unit was cheap and got a point increase doesnt mean the other nerfed units needed the same thing.


7pt swarms when others swarms are 12-13 pts, getting an increase is fine.

SM fliers (some of the more costly ones) didnt need a points increase they needed to not be spam.

They both were spammed... Flyers b.c they have huge fire output and you can take detachements of only Flyers, flocks were cheaper than supposed to be unit. The fixes were made for the needs of the unit.

You know what units are strong for they're cost too? 50+ other units, we will see more point changes, unit changed etc.. there will be more faqs and codex's will fix unbalances as much as they can. Just be happy they are trying to fix problems.

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Painjunky
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PostSubject: Re: Razorwing flock spam - its amazing   Wed Jul 26 2017, 07:40

I'm very happy GW are responding in a timely fashion to the tournament net lists but they've overdone it with RWflocks.

I wanted to try out 30 flocks at 2000 pts. That's not spammy at all in my mind. I don' t believe they're worth taking now. Sad
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UlrikTheSlayer
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PostSubject: Re: Razorwing flock spam - its amazing   Wed Jul 26 2017, 09:49

GW overreacting is not good either, they probablay acted like this due to Zombicide selling same minature but at a decent price (around 1,5 € the miniature). They increased points but the Flocks should be 10 points maximum, S2 T2 even with FLY and 8 attacks should be that price.

The person comparing a Tantalus to a Stormraven...

Tantalus : 12 Attacks S6 PA-3 2 dmg, 2+ Hit Points, Less mouvements, hittable in melee but open-topped and 5+ Invuln / 3+ Armor... 350 pts...

Stormraven: supersonic, 24 Attacks S4, 12 attacks S6 PA-1, 2 Attacks S8 PA-3 D3 dmg, 6 Attacks S5 PA-1, 3+ Armor, -1 to Hit more movement.  274 pts...

Wonder how you plan to spam Tantalus, but I would love to see how you win games with 3 of them... I am not saying Tantalus is bad, but its a lot of point for a transport and it lacks a lot of the firepower. If you include the Trueborn or other think inside, the point is not the same.
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aurynn
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PostSubject: Re: Razorwing flock spam - its amazing   Wed Jul 26 2017, 12:27

Stormraven is not counted as battlefield presence for the purpose of Sudden Death. Tantalus counts normally. I think it is much more probable to win games with Tantalus spam than with Stormraven spam.
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CptMetal
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PostSubject: Re: Razorwing flock spam - its amazing   Wed Jul 26 2017, 13:35

Do the units inside count? I mean, if the enemy has 4 stormraven "on the board" with troops inside, does he still loose?

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Jimsolo
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PostSubject: Re: Razorwing flock spam - its amazing   Wed Jul 26 2017, 14:00

I believe that he will still lose, yes.
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UlrikTheSlayer
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PostSubject: Re: Razorwing flock spam - its amazing   Wed Jul 26 2017, 14:05

You do not lose unless you have nothing left on table (except Flyers)

Of course Tantalus would win using this rule against spamming Stormravens and bad players.

I was talking about the power of the miniature. 350 Pts of Tantalus is really too much compared to the Stormraven and the firepower it provides. Actually I would say that the Tantalus is really bad and not resilient.

Spamming is not totally dead anyway. You can still field easily 5 Stormraven and a lot of resilient troops to not get tabled. Most lists had around 4 to 5 Stormravens and Dante/Gulliman + other troops.

Not sure you can kill a hidden Culexus on the table for example easily and you lose only if you have nothing left at the end of the turn. This can be resolved by always going "second" and keeping troop in reserve. You can really go through this spamming rule easily.
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Massaen
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PostSubject: Re: Razorwing flock spam - its amazing   Wed Jul 26 2017, 17:39

It's player turn - not game round now

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Massaen
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PostSubject: Re: Razorwing flock spam - its amazing   Wed Jul 26 2017, 17:46

@UlrikTheSlayer wrote:
The person comparing a Tantalus to a Stormraven...

Tantalus : 12 Attacks S6 PA-3 2 dmg, 2+ Hit Points, Less mouvements, hittable in melee but open-topped and 5+ Invuln / 3+ Armor... 350 pts...

Stormraven: supersonic, 24 Attacks S4, 12 attacks S6 PA-1, 2 Attacks S8 PA-3 D3 dmg, 6 Attacks S5 PA-1, 3+ Armor, -1 to Hit more movement.  274 pts...

Wonder how you plan to spam Tantalus, but I would love to see how you win games with 3 of them... I am not saying Tantalus is bad, but its a lot of point for a transport and it lacks a lot of the firepower. If you include the Trueborn or other think inside, the point is not the same.

You should really get the rules correct for the vehicles - the tantalus is S8 shooting, has solid combat ability, the extra mortal wounds in combat and can charge flyers. It's the Raven being underpriced is the issue.

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PostSubject: Re: Razorwing flock spam - its amazing   Wed Jul 26 2017, 17:50

@UlrikTheSlayer wrote:
This can be resolved by always going "second" and keeping troop in reserve. You can really go through this spamming rule easily.

That doesn't work. You lose at the end of any turn (after the first battle round), so if I knock out your ground forces in top of T2, you lose before you can bring reserves in.
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krayd
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PostSubject: Re: Razorwing flock spam - its amazing   Wed Jul 26 2017, 18:19

@Bugs_N_Orks wrote:
@UlrikTheSlayer wrote:
This can be resolved by always going "second" and keeping troop in reserve. You can really go through this spamming rule easily.

That doesn't work. You lose at the end of any turn (after the first battle round), so if I knock out your ground forces in top of T2, you lose before you can bring reserves in.

However, since you can choose to bring in your reserves whenever you want, you can bring them in during the first battle round, if you think that you're in any danger of losing all of your ground forces by round 2. You also have all of battle round 1 to position them so as to make them as difficult as possible to get wiped too quickly. Though, of course, this means that you still have to have enough non-flyer units in reserve to keep from getting wiped in the following round.
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UlrikTheSlayer
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PostSubject: Re: Razorwing flock spam - its amazing   Wed Jul 26 2017, 22:51

@Massaen wrote:
It's player turn - not game round now

Ah! Well okay that change things then! My bad, rests of 7th edition on this one... Okay to say that Flyers spam is then almost dead but it does not change the fact that you can still bring 3 flyers and have enough troops.
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goofydk
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PostSubject: Re: Razorwing flock spam - its amazing   Fri Aug 04 2017, 15:12

Someone did it.. Taken from ESC I believe.

I can see why the nerf was needed but dont know why the stormraven still cost the same? You cant spam them as much but its still a really really good flyer.

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TheBaconPope
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PostSubject: Re: Razorwing flock spam - its amazing   Fri Aug 04 2017, 15:17

Quote :
Someone did it.. Taken from ESC I believe.

Do you know how well it did? That's still a godforsakenly large number of birds.

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Bugs_N_Orks
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PostSubject: Re: Razorwing flock spam - its amazing   Sat Aug 05 2017, 15:42

ESC might be a little different but I know the rules for ETC were locked in well before the latest FAQ point increase for birds.  I see 10 units of birds, yncarne, cat lady, maugan ra, solitaire, farseer, and some extra guys.  That's waaaay over points at 14 per bird.

Its funny how many people had the same idea about making birds, mine look pretty much identical although i didn't bother basing since I only needed them for ATC (which didn't have a paint requirement given the change in editions).  Although the guy above only put 3 on each base, what a cheapskate!!  Razz )

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CptMetal
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PostSubject: Re: Razorwing flock spam - its amazing   Sat Aug 05 2017, 22:08

Where did he get the birds from? Or you?

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PostSubject: Re: Razorwing flock spam - its amazing   Sun Aug 06 2017, 14:23

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Count Adhemar
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PostSubject: Re: Razorwing flock spam - its amazing   Thu Sep 14 2017, 16:45

Puppetswar have got in on the act. Shame they're about 2 months too late!

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mattblowers
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PostSubject: Re: Razorwing flock spam - its amazing   Thu Sep 14 2017, 16:59

@Bugs_N_Orks wrote:
I google "miniature plastic birds" and they popped up pretty quickly.  There's a few sources to get them from but I got mine from the site below.  And yes that means all my birds cost a grand total of $12 US  Laughing

http://factorydirectcraft.com/catalog/products/1531_2530_1532-6041-miniature_artificial_doves.html?ccset=US&gclid=Cj0KCQjw_JrMBRDPARIsACis1HxNOPdHQCqZeESU9SWIzsdEBMUomtE_cQU9M8hVrn-JOBhaH6Q3WgQaAlcmEALw_wcB]http://factorydirectcraft.com/catalog/products/1531_2530_1532-6041-miniature_artificial_doves.html?ccset=US&gclid=Cj0KCQjw_JrMBRDPARIsACis1HxNOPdHQCqZeESU9SWIzsdEBMUomtE_cQU9M8hVrn-JOBhaH6Q3WgQaAlcmEALw_wcB

I don't want to the fluff police, but DOVES?! I would slowly die inside to play those in a DE army. It's the antithesis of the Dark Eldar aesthetic.
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krayd
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PostSubject: Re: Razorwing flock spam - its amazing   Thu Sep 14 2017, 17:37

@mattblowers wrote:

I don't want to the fluff police, but DOVES?!  I would slowly die inside to play those in a DE army. It's the antithesis of the Dark Eldar aesthetic.

Maybe... glue a bunch of spikey bits to them? Wink
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