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 Razorwing flock spam - its amazing

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amishprn86
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PostSubject: Re: Razorwing flock spam - its amazing   Tue Jul 18 2017, 17:13

But its a 100% chance to kill one most of the time, over all it will take many less shots to kill. Some weapons like Sun Cannons and star cannons are 2d6/d6/2 shots that do D3 damage., or the Voidbomber etc... a Suncannon right now will only kill... maybe 2 birds, but this way you can kill 3-4 birds. Lances/Lascannons will always kill 1 if wounds, then there are weapons like, ML's, Blasters, Plasma Cannons, Battle Cannons, etc....

A ML Devastator team or Lascannon one will kill 4 birds them selves (if all hits and wounds) and we arnt even talking about 1/2 the weapons int he game Smile Nor did we talk about melee weapons....

Just my 2 cents

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Bugs_N_Orks
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PostSubject: Re: Razorwing flock spam - its amazing   Tue Jul 18 2017, 18:20

I don't think flock spam is really going to work after they get nerfed. The army I posted doesn't really function with only 70ish flocks, plenty of stuff can remove that many in 2-3 turns.
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amishprn86
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PostSubject: Re: Razorwing flock spam - its amazing   Tue Jul 18 2017, 18:37

I did some math and SOB can remove 150 in 3 turns if built for it.

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PostSubject: Re: Razorwing flock spam - its amazing   Tue Jul 18 2017, 18:43

while I dont mind the whole weapons do full damage against swarms, it might be better to something more thematic and as effective since lascannons really arent meant to kill a ton of birds in one shot realistically. A better idea is you are +1 to hit swarms or if a weapon has variable attacks like a frag missle, it rolls max hits. That way, the right weapons are effective against swarms. Frag missles are better against a flock of birds then a lascannon would be
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Count Adhemar
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PostSubject: Re: Razorwing flock spam - its amazing   Tue Jul 18 2017, 23:15

Err...that's pretty much exactly what I suggested a few posts back! Very Happy

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PostSubject: Re: Razorwing flock spam - its amazing   Wed Jul 19 2017, 05:22

Sorry I saw one that said lascannons do max damage, missed the other ones. I wouldn't mind if razorwings got nerfed but at the same time they should really nerf conscripts and brimstones. Especially brimstones. Why are they so durable for 2 points? who thought giving a 2 point model a 4+ invul, a cheap character with a larger aura giving -1 to hit them and then make the objectives of warhammer scored by having the most models near it. Probably stormravens would get nerfed but what would they do. Would they make them more expensive? Easier than changing the flyer detachment.
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|Meavar
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PostSubject: Re: Razorwing flock spam - its amazing   Wed Jul 19 2017, 06:34

Jeah but if you look at what did good, the top tables of most tournaments I saw mentioned here were flyer spam, often stormravens, but also craftworld flyers.

The thing is, conscript spam is partly metagated by the flyer spam.
But jeah the brimstones are beaten by the conscripts
And I think the flyers are beaten by the brimstones
Thus GW has made an expensive convoluted version of the rock paper scissors game?
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Ikol
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PostSubject: Re: Razorwing flock spam - its amazing   Wed Jul 19 2017, 07:27

In a game of Rock Paper Scissors, the Stormraven is a pickaxe.

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PostSubject: Re: Razorwing flock spam - its amazing   Wed Jul 19 2017, 13:09

|Meavar wrote:
The thing is, conscript spam is partly metagated by the flyer spam.
But jeah the brimstones are beaten by the conscripts
And I think the flyers are beaten by the brimstones
Thus GW has made an expensive convoluted version of the rock paper scissors game?

And razorwing spam beats all of those Razz
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PostSubject: Re: Razorwing flock spam - its amazing   Wed Jul 19 2017, 17:29

Well it didn't place absolute top tier but I think it needs people to play it right. I don't think its a point and click army in the least and the soul bursting interactions on your key pieces is important.
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PostSubject: Re: Razorwing flock spam - its amazing   Wed Jul 19 2017, 18:31

If you're talking about how they placed in ATC that's not really a valid comparison. The top scorers tend to be armies that either win or lose big, and through pairings got favorable matches.

For example in our last round we played Team Happy (the winners). They had 2 stormraven lists, one played me and lost 19-1, the other avoided me and our demons (our 2 raven hard counters) and won 20-0. The guy I played ended up in the high 90s while the other guy had close to max points.

Many of the top scoring players come from teams that didn't make the top 10, and it's not uncommon once a team knows they're out of the running to protect their top scorers to go for best general or best of faction.

We did lots of testing leading up to ATC and there was almost nothing that our bird list couldn't pull at least a minor win out of in ATC mission. It's weakest match obviously being KP primary against Ravens and such, but that's usually easy enough to pair around (unless our team matches best with me taking a hit that game).
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PostSubject: Re: Razorwing flock spam - its amazing   Wed Jul 19 2017, 22:36

TeenageAngst wrote:


And then some schmuck reminds me Biel-Tan got blown up and that Lelith is Ynnari now.

And then I buy another box of birds.

Lelith is Ynnari now? I've not heard this? Does that mean she will be absent in the DE 8th codex?

(Also buying a box of bendy birds Rolling Eyes )
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PostSubject: Re: Razorwing flock spam - its amazing   Wed Jul 19 2017, 22:56

Bendy birds? Do you mean the Zombicide ones?

But yeah, Lelith joined up with Ynnead, which was what made all the other Aeldari think it was cool. Leaving everyone who joined before she did to be Ynnari hipsters and remind everyone that they were in the movement since the beginning.
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TeenageAngst
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PostSubject: Re: Razorwing flock spam - its amazing   Thu Jul 20 2017, 00:12

Groan wrote:
TeenageAngst wrote:


And then some schmuck reminds me Biel-Tan got blown up and that Lelith is Ynnari now.

And then I buy another box of birds.

Lelith is Ynnari now? I've not heard this? Does that mean she will be absent in the DE 8th codex?

(Also buying a box of bendy birds Rolling Eyes )

I'm about 50/50 that she will be playable as a straight Dark Eldar. I have the distinct impression that GW is going to harvest units and characters from the Eldar/Dark Eldar/Harlequins line and make them Ynnari exclusive because right now that faction has only 3 specific models for it.

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PostSubject: Re: Razorwing flock spam - its amazing   Thu Jul 20 2017, 00:37

She is DE.... even if flush says Ynnari they will keep her as DE.

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PostSubject: Re: Razorwing flock spam - its amazing   Thu Jul 20 2017, 00:49

Yeah heaven forbid they take yet ANOTHER Hq from us...
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PostSubject: Re: Razorwing flock spam - its amazing   Thu Jul 20 2017, 08:07

We all know how much I love to say 'I told you so'. But for this, when that time comes, Mr. Amish, I won't want to.

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PostSubject: Re: Razorwing flock spam - its amazing   Thu Jul 20 2017, 09:12

I'd be surprised if they shifted any of the DE characters to pure Ynnari. It would restrict sales for no good reason.

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PostSubject: Re: Razorwing flock spam - its amazing   Thu Jul 20 2017, 09:46

I always had a hunch that Yvraine was Lady Malyx... or at least that they modified a concept design for Lady Malyx and recycled it for the Ynnari miniature.
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Ikol
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PostSubject: Re: Razorwing flock spam - its amazing   Thu Jul 20 2017, 09:55

Drugo wrote:
I always had a hunch that Yvraine was Lady Malyx... or at least that they modified a concept design for Lady Malyx and recycled it for the Ynnari miniature.

Yvraine is a weird way of spelling "Mary Sue", I'll just assume its "Aeldari" for the same thing.

Rolling Eyes

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PostSubject: Re: Razorwing flock spam - its amazing   Thu Jul 20 2017, 10:55

I'm currently part of a small escalation campaign and run at least 10 birds with a beastmaster. Currently my gaming store is really struggling with their target priorities! Ignore the birds for too long and things start getting bogged down, waste early shots on the birds and risk getting wasted by blasters / dark lances!

They're great and really different to anything else I've played with Dark Eldar so far. It's just unfortunate that they can be spammed to create such bland lists.

I do hope Games Workshop figure it out - Not necessarily a nerf because I find they die as soon as they're sneezed on but a restriction that makes spammy lists less potent / useful.

I'm not looking for the re-introduction of blast here, but just something to control the sheer volume of legitimate and deadly spam in 8th.
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amishprn86
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PostSubject: Re: Razorwing flock spam - its amazing   Thu Jul 20 2017, 15:22

But everything can be spammed..... and that been the way of 40k sense i've know of it (3rd).

3rd Slaanesh bike spam
4th Nidzillia spam
5th Rhino Rush till Necrons/GK's and the Stormraven/Storm talon, then it was Spam those
6th Flyer/MFC spam
7th King of Deathstars

Even WHFB had spam (i played that from 4th till 7th also) and they had 1 edition where the tournaments winners were 1 giant Black Ork blob.

At least we are playing with 6-10 units of blogs and we have HQ supports with Heavy weapons, as of right now its no more spamy than anything else we've seen.

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PostSubject: Re: Razorwing flock spam - its amazing   Thu Jul 20 2017, 15:55

I've literally never seen a time in 40k when spam wasn't a thing. There will always be units where a little is good and a lot is better, or crappy choices that are so cheap that quantity becomes quality.

It seems like an unavoidable part of the game.
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PostSubject: Re: Razorwing flock spam - its amazing   Thu Jul 20 2017, 16:02

7th was also free transport spam, and monster mash spam

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PostSubject: Re: Razorwing flock spam - its amazing   Thu Jul 20 2017, 16:59

I used 4 groups of 6 and they helped me pull 3rd of 9 at a local tourny. I'll probably run less next time, they are super annoying to fight with.

Also thinking about re basing them so that they are tearing apart Guardsmen

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