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Calyptra
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PostSubject: Tools of Torment   Sat Jun 24 2017, 14:46

I hadn't noticed this, but saw it on Dakka and then verified in my Index. The Tools of Torment list says, "A model may replace a ranged weapon with a single weapon from this list."

Only Acothysts and Haemonculi have access to the list, right?

Acothysts do not have a ranged weapon to replace.

Haemonculi can give up their splinter pistol. So they can spend 7 points to upgrade their pistol to an identical pistol.

This is obviously another error - otherwise the Wracks kit would come with 2 weapons that nobody in the squad can use, and what would be the point of putting "The Acothyst may take items from the Weapons of Torture and/or Tools of Torment lists" on the datasheet if they weren't supposed to have them? As written, the only model who can take a stinger pistol is a Haemonculus, and he has to spend 7 points and give up an identical gun to do it.

How do we handle this? Do we just not give guns to Acothysts and hope they eventually fix it? Do we (shudder) argue intent? I think intent is a valid argument when a rule literally does not do anything as written (like assault weapons and pistols), and it's clear that Acothysts were intended to be able to take these guns.

If we get our opponent to agree to Acothysts with guns, what are we actually changing? If we change "replace a ranged weapon with" to "take" at the top of the Tools of Torment list, it solves both the Acothyst issue and means that the Haemonculus gets a small benefit from the stinger pistol by becoming a gunfighter. (Gunfighter Haemonculi were legal last edition and I converted one, so I have an interest in this.) It does lead to the potentially game-breaking scenario (sarcasm) of Haemonculi with liquifiers or hexrifles being able to carry a splinter pistol with one of their other arms.


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colinsherlow
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PostSubject: Re: Tools of Torment   Sat Jun 24 2017, 15:58

Why do you think he can't have a gun?  He is not replacing any weapons. Seems you can have him whatever you want from the list. The kit also has a bunch of these options available to the acothysts

I really like the poison blade.

Also the weapons say you may swap out a pistol/ccw for another weapon. But you don't have to swap the weapon. It just gives you the option of taking more weapons (paying the price for both pistols) or swapping and only having to pay the price for one of the weapons.

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Calyptra
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PostSubject: Re: Tools of Torment   Sun Jun 25 2017, 07:18

I want to make sure I understand you.

Are you saying first, that the directions for how to use the wargear list permit the Haemonculus to exchange its splinter pistol for an item instead of paying points for it, and second, that the directions for how to use the list are optional?

I'm reasonably certain that's not how it works.

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Barrywise
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PostSubject: Re: Tools of Torment   Sun Jun 25 2017, 17:04

yeah, dual wielding pistols is a thing right? you're not restricted to just a single pistol to shoot with?

And man oh man do I wish we had reroll wounds for liquifiers.

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Kantalla
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PostSubject: Re: Tools of Torment   Mon Jun 26 2017, 11:42

RAW is clear. No guns for the Acothyst, and a Haemonculus can swap his gun for a more Coven look and sound for 7 points that do nothing in game.

I would imagine a reasonable intent call to say Acothyst can buy a ranged weapon and Stinger Pistol should say 2+, but those aren't the real rules.

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Millhouse4570
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PostSubject: Re: Tools of Torment   Mon Jun 26 2017, 20:19

I think we can all agree tge achothyt is suppose to be able to tools of torment. If he wasn't it wouldn't say right in his description that he may take items from the list. As for the haemie taking a tool of torment and keeping his pistol im not sure thats how it would work. Replacing nothing on the achothyts and taking an item seems reasonable because he doesn't have a ranged weapon but the haemie it wouldn't make sense. If you could take two ranged weapons Why would you replace the splinter pistol it cost 0 points and you can only take one tool of torment. So i dont understand why they would give you the option unless you have to exchange the splinter pistol for what ever else on the list you take.
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colinsherlow
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PostSubject: Re: Tools of Torment   Tue Jun 27 2017, 20:08

That and the kits come with the tools for the acolytes.

Also the rules say you may replace your weapon with the tool. You have to replace it. You can just buy it. Replacing the weapons might just save you a point or two

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Ikol
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PostSubject: Re: Tools of Torment   Wed Jun 28 2017, 01:53

Does the word"take" on the unit page override the word "replace/exchange" on the List page?  If so; there's your answer.

It used to be "codex tops BRB", now I guess it's "Dataslate tops SRB and non-Dataslate parts of the Index".

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Squidmaster
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PostSubject: Re: Tools of Torment   Fri Jun 30 2017, 17:05

Well damn them, GW don't seem to be giving out answers at the moment, buts its something:



They do seem to be looking out for issues like this and passing them on to an FAQ team, so if there more quesitons, posting them seems to help.
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colinsherlow
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PostSubject: Re: Tools of Torment   Fri Jun 30 2017, 17:37

It will be funny if GW doesn't allow the acolyte to take tools of torment. Especially since the plastic set has all the options for him

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PostSubject: Re: Tools of Torment   Fri Jun 30 2017, 18:28

They will. This is an easy fix.
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PostSubject: Re: Tools of Torment   Fri Jun 30 2017, 18:29

The real mystery is, which way will they fix it? THE SUSPENSE!
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Ikol
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PostSubject: Re: Tools of Torment   Fri Jun 30 2017, 19:29

"Actually, the entire Wrack kit is just an upgrades box for your Haemonculus."

-GeeDubs, 2017

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