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 Has anyone mathhammered Shredders vs Shardcarbines for Scourges?

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Rabblerouser
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PostSubject: Has anyone mathhammered Shredders vs Shardcarbines for Scourges?   Sat Jun 24 2017, 03:26

I really want them to be good because I like the fluff and models, but how much does wounding on 2s and 3s with re-rolls really compensate for one less shot on average? I imagine they are at least quite a bit better versus vehicles, though neither gun is anything to write home about in that respect.

I did have a go at the calculations myself, but the re-roll tripped me up a little.
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mynamelegend
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PostSubject: Re: Has anyone mathhammered Shredders vs Shardcarbines for Scourges?   Sat Jun 24 2017, 04:20

GEQ: Shardcarbine 0.66, Shredder 0.79
MEQ: Shardcarbine 0.33, Shredder 0.39
Bike Marines*: Shardcarbine 0.33, Shredder 0.29
Carnifex: Shardcarbine 0.33, Shredder 0.22
Dreadnought: Shardcarbine 0.11, Shredder 0.15

*Or anything else with a 3+ save, T5 or less, and without the Infantry keyword

To make a long story short: Shardcarbine all day every day. Shredders are a pointlessly small increase, a decrease in many situations, and costs both points and potential special weapon slots for useful weapons like Blasters.
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Barrywise
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PostSubject: Re: Has anyone mathhammered Shredders vs Shardcarbines for Scourges?   Sat Jun 24 2017, 05:44

Welcome to the Dark City Rabblerouser! As mynamelegend stated. Shredders just don't cut it for the special weapons department. You're basically much better off taking something like a blaster. Cheers and welcome to the city!
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Ikol
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PostSubject: Re: Has anyone mathhammered Shredders vs Shardcarbines for Scourges?   Sat Jun 24 2017, 07:42

Or, if we're talking Scourges; Dark Lances.

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Kantalla
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PostSubject: Re: Has anyone mathhammered Shredders vs Shardcarbines for Scourges?   Sun Jun 25 2017, 01:11

I have been having fun mathhammering out our index book, and it's fair to say Shredders are still a never take option (as they have been for several editions). On Warriors, Trueborn or Scourges, they are less points efficient than the Splinter rifle or Shardcarbine options against infantry, and are inferior against any of the other options against vehicles.

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The Strange Dark One
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PostSubject: Re: Has anyone mathhammered Shredders vs Shardcarbines for Scourges?   Sun Jun 25 2017, 01:29

@Kantalla wrote:
I have been having fun mathhammering out our index book, and it's fair to say Shredders are still a never take option (as they have been for several editions). On Warriors, Trueborn or Scourges, they are less points efficient than the Splinter rifle or Shardcarbine options against infantry, and are inferior against any of the other options against vehicles.

I came to the same conclusion, which is sad because we could really really need a good anti-horde weapon. I was tempted to take it on Warriors but why would I take that over another body?

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Bibitybopitybacon
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PostSubject: Re: Has anyone mathhammered Shredders vs Shardcarbines for Scourges?   Sun Jun 25 2017, 02:06

Reaper and Razorwing jet fighter are probably the best bet.
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mynamelegend
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PostSubject: Re: Has anyone mathhammered Shredders vs Shardcarbines for Scourges?   Sun Jun 25 2017, 02:23

Can confirm, Razorwing Jetfighter's necrotoxin missiles are great at hordes. 6 attacks instead of d6 attacks really makes a difference.
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Kantalla
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PostSubject: Re: Has anyone mathhammered Shredders vs Shardcarbines for Scourges?   Sun Jun 25 2017, 03:04

Our top three options for shooting (damage done per 100 points) from pure mathhammer

Against Guardsmen profiles:
Medusae 6.35
Kabalite Warriors (Splinter Rifles) 6.01
Mandrakes 5.07

Against Space Marine profiles:
Medusae 3.17
Kabalite Warriors (Splinter Rifles) 3.00
Mandrakes 2.92

Note - Razorwing is down the list a bit at 3.30 unsaved wounds per 100 points against Guardsmen and 2.16 unsaved wounds per 100 points against Space Marines.

Beasts are our best options for low toughness hordes (Razorwing Flocks) and higher toughness models (Clawed Fiends) in melee.

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Rabblerouser
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PostSubject: Re: Has anyone mathhammered Shredders vs Shardcarbines for Scourges?   Sun Jun 25 2017, 04:29

Thanks for the welcome and detailed replies everyone. Looks like they're as suboptimal as I feared, still. Will probably end up going with one squad each of blasters, dark lances, haywire blasters and shardcarbines for my twenty Scourges since I'm trying not to go too intensely in on darklight spam and the haywire seems useful fir knights, custodes and such.
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