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Creeping Darkness
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PostSubject: How many HQs?   Fri Jun 23 2017, 23:19

It seems that command points are pretty handy, what with the ability to reroll clutch rolls, interrupt the normal fight sequence, discard unwanted tactical objectives and generally do cool things.

But, to get more command points, it seems that we need to take more HQs. The battalion needs 2 HQs, and most other detachments need at least one. But, frankly, I'm not all that excited by our HQ options. So whenever I start to think about grabbing more CPs, I hit the same hurdle - how many HQs can I take without rendering my army completely useless?

Any thoughts on ideal HQ balance, and which ones to take to pad out a bigger detachment?
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Barrywise
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PostSubject: Re: How many HQs?   Fri Jun 23 2017, 23:52

With the interesting buffs from our HQ's and how morale works, I think having two HQ's might be worth it to spread across the table.

To me personally, it feels like GW was trying to make is so that a battalion at 1850, 2000pts or whatever would be almost like 2 factions coming together. So it would depend on what you want from your HQ and then attempting to utilize what those HQ's bring to the table. would you like an Archon with his retinue in a venom being a swiss army knife? A succubus with her girls in a raider acting as a rapier. Haemonculi with wracks or grots in a raider acting as a mace. Fancy your chances with the master of the Blade Drazhar with a retinue of incubi acting like a great sword, cleaving any and all infantry units they come across?

Thus, whichever and however you take your HQ(s), for better or worse, practically dictates how you are going to play.

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Cerve
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PostSubject: Re: How many HQs?   Sat Jun 24 2017, 00:30

I usually play with the 6 Fast Attacks detachment, with 1 Succubus with +2 Movement drug. In this way, she get 10", precisely as Clawed Fiends. I play her as another "Beastmaster"
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mynamelegend
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PostSubject: Re: How many HQs?   Sat Jun 24 2017, 02:05

Yeah, our HQs hover between "pointless" and "laughable" and are quite possibly the single worst HQ selection in all of 8th edition, and even if they're not they're definitely up there.

Here's your friendly reminder that the other Aeldari may have more on offer. A Farseer Skyrunner can always throw around Doom and Smite. Warlock Skyrunners can throw around Reveal, Horrify, and Smite. A Troupe Master goes wonderfully in a Starweaver with a five-man Troupe with Embraces and turns them into one of the nastiest little blender units in the game.

If you do wanna go pure Dark Eldar... The best I've worked out is to hold your nose and put a pair of Archons with agonisers and blasters into a venom. I've taken to calling this the "loveboat", and it fills our HQ slots and gives us some place to dump excess points into medusae or sslyth and does little else.
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Von Snabel
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PostSubject: Re: How many HQs?   Sat Jun 24 2017, 08:40

I've had some success with a Heami tbh. The aura isn't that bad if you have one or two Coven units. He's quite all right in CC with the Whip. A bit too squishy but with the covens 5++ 6+++ he should be in good company. Just for gods sake don't let him run alone, he'll die horribly.
I've been running mine with a Talos with Scalpels to scare off other Semi dedicated CC units and delay the enemy if need be.
I've run 2 HQ to the original question and haven't had it be too much of a handicap.

Edit: Don't go dedicated CC Archon, take a blaster and aviod the easy take off in CC.


Last edited by Von Snabel on Sat Jun 24 2017, 10:01; edited 2 times in total
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Ikol
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PostSubject: Re: How many HQs?   Sat Jun 24 2017, 08:53

Haemonculi with Electrocorrosive Whips aren't terrible, nor is a Succubus with PGL. (Remember, the Archite Glaive is 'free'.

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The Shredder
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PostSubject: Re: How many HQs?   Sat Jun 24 2017, 12:11

Here are my thoughts:

1) I would endeavour to include the absolute minimum number of HQs possible.

2) I might bring 2 HQs in order to unlock a Battalion, but I would absolutely never want to bring more than that.

3) Whilst the Archon is cheap, I'd personally consider using an Autarch, Warlock or Farseer instead. The reason is that (IMO) the Archon's aura is completely worthless and brings nothing to our army. Hence, if I'm going to bring an HQ with a useless aura, I might as well get one who makes up for it in other ways.
- Warlocks are cheaper than Archons and can use Smite or Runes of Battle powers on enemy units, as well as denying psychic powers.
- Farseers can Smite and Doom enemy units and are quite resilient.
- Autarchs have access to much better wargear than the Archon and are buffed slightly by their own auras.
(And of course, this is assuming that you have no other Eldar units in your army - if you do then these options look even more attractive as you can make full use of their auras/powers.)
Perhaps most importantly though, each of the above can take a Jetbike, and the Autarch also has options for wings or a warp jump pack - whilst the Archon (along with every other HQ in our "really fast" army) is stuck on foot.
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Painjunky
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PostSubject: Re: How many HQs?   Sun Jun 25 2017, 07:21

2 max to unlock CPs.
The other eldar factions have superior HQ choices but if your into pure DE like me here's how i rank them.

#1 Heam with electro whip. If you run him with wracks and talos and use his buff bubble to the fullest he's worth it. Its hard for an enemy to get to grips with him, he rarely dies.  Good.

#2 Succ with glaive, maybe blast pistol and PGL if you can afford it. An OK little blender. Drugs are good. Buffs the girls and reavers.  Not bad.  

#3 Archon with blaster, ago, PGL. A cheapish supporting HQ. Buff bubble is rarely used. The extra shooting is nice. OK in CC.  Average at best.
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CptMetal
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PostSubject: Re: How many HQs?   Sun Jun 25 2017, 09:21

I'm going to play two of the Archon with Blaster and Phantasm Grenade Launcher in a venom as another pseudo true born squad.

But now that I read this I'm going to have a look at the other Eldar HQ.
I hope pure dark Eldar get great ways to spend their command points to make it unattractive playing a mix.

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Arani
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PostSubject: Re: How many HQs?   Sun Jun 25 2017, 19:16

Personally I love playing a Kabal oriented army, making it a little tough for me to deviate away from Archons.  But I do rather like the thought of Drahzar throwing out some wounds with a few incubi.  I've yet to really test him, or incubi this edition so I don't know their full potential.

But I'd have to say I think Haemies are our best HQ choice. By improving the toughness of our units, they can really make our vehicles and troops more durable against certain armies.  For example, instead of Tau pulse weapons wounding on raiders on 4's, they'd need 5's, which can make a big difference when you're facing volume of shots.  Plus.. Haemies are like nukes for Grey Knights and psyker bombs.  

With their crucible of malediction ability, you could literally charge them between two squads of Grey Knight terminators and probably kill well over half of them in one go.  (4+ on 1d6 per enemy psyker.. and all grey knights have the psyker rule.  That's a ton of mortal wounds)

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MHaruspex
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PostSubject: Re: How many HQs?   Sun Jun 25 2017, 21:13

Keep in mind that the Succubus has No Escape on her own - you don't need to pair her with Wyches. Stick her in a Raider with any unit of your choice, and they become difficult to disengage from.

What I've been running in my Battalion has been 8 Wracks + Succubus + Haemonculus. A T5 assault unit that's difficult to leave combat with is no joke and they've worked wonders every game I've run them.
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The Shredder
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PostSubject: Re: How many HQs?   Sun Jun 25 2017, 21:49

Arani wrote:
But I'd have to say I think Haemies are our best HQ choice. By improving the toughness of our units, they can really make our vehicles and troops more durable against certain armies.  For example, instead of Tau pulse weapons wounding on raiders on 4's, they'd need 5's, which can make a big difference when you're facing volume of shots.  Plus.. Haemies are like nukes for Grey Knights and psyker bombs.

It's weird to me that Haemonculi - the sculptors of flesh - are allowed to improve the toughness of our vehicles but not, say, Kabalite Warriors. Neutral
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lament.config
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PostSubject: Re: How many HQs?   Mon Jun 26 2017, 00:02

Right now I feel like each one of out HQs has a place. I'm still excited they dropped in cost. The Archon rolling with Ssylth make a decent all around squad with capable shooting between the blaster and shardcarbines.

I've been pairing the succubus with Urien in a unit of 8 wracks. Mixed success with it. I haven't given up warlord in my games yet.
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The Strange Dark One
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PostSubject: Re: How many HQs?   Mon Jun 26 2017, 00:59

The Shredder wrote:
Arani wrote:
But I'd have to say I think Haemies are our best HQ choice. By improving the toughness of our units, they can really make our vehicles and troops more durable against certain armies.  For example, instead of Tau pulse weapons wounding on raiders on 4's, they'd need 5's, which can make a big difference when you're facing volume of shots.  Plus.. Haemies are like nukes for Grey Knights and psyker bombs.

It's weird to me that Haemonculi - the sculptors of flesh - are allowed to improve the toughness of our vehicles but not, say, Kabalite Warriors. Neutral

I find it likely that this was an oversight and will get an errata eventually. Or the ability will be renamed to make it only apply to <Coven> infantry when our codex is released.

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lament.config
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PostSubject: Re: How many HQs?   Mon Jun 26 2017, 01:56

Agreed I feel like that was just missed before print.

Also, I would say a minimum of three HQs. Two for the battalion and another for another detachment. The flyer wing or whatever may be taken as a third slot. But, that's another conversation.

Which HQS are really the best as far as if you wanted to use multiple of the same type really depends on what makes up the bulk of your forces I think.

Whenever we get a real codex with relic gear will probably determine which is really on top.
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|Meavar
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PostSubject: Re: How many HQs?   Mon Jun 26 2017, 07:23

I find the succubus is quite nice actually. They have the anti disengage stuff and buff my hellions (also reavers and wyches) quite nicely.
The problem is that I don't need that much of them 1 or 2 at most after that all hq becomes a tax.
I do not field any coven units yet so right now heamies are a waste, but I might get some at a later point. The shear amount of HQ we need to bring also means the "argument you are shoehorned into 1 faction" just coven/wyches/kabalites is a bit moot, you need so many HQ you can buff them all anyway Razz

I don't like to dilute our pure race with filthy craftworlders, but am really tempted by the warlocks. They are cheap, have some nice buffs and can deny which I really miss otherwise.
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PostSubject: Re: How many HQs?   Mon Jun 26 2017, 08:24

lament.config wrote:
Right now I feel like each one of out HQs has a place. I'm still excited they dropped in cost. The Archon rolling with Ssylth make a decent all around squad with capable shooting between the blaster and shardcarbines.

I've been pairing the succubus with Urien in a unit of 8 wracks. Mixed success with it. I haven't given up warlord in my games yet.

Just remember that Sslyths are not a squad anymore, but are all characthers for each own.
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PostSubject: Re: How many HQs?   Mon Jun 26 2017, 08:53

In regards to command points. I've found that about 6 is enough.

Don't take anymore DE HQs than you have to.
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Count Adhemar
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PostSubject: Re: How many HQs?   Mon Jun 26 2017, 09:38

Not yet tried the Haem or Archon but the Succubus did some good work for me, buffing my Wyches and taking out a few Death Guard on the charge, forcing a Morale check, which they failed.

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PostSubject: Re: How many HQs?   Mon Jun 26 2017, 09:51

Remember also that Yvraine, Avatar and to a lesser extent, the Viscarch are also HQ options and can be included in any Aledari army and even if you don't go Ynnari, they provide some fun rules all around and can be quite brutal in fights.

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PostSubject: Re: How many HQs?   Mon Jun 26 2017, 12:11

mightydoughnut wrote:
Remember also that Yvraine, Avatar and to a lesser extent, the Viscarch are also HQ options and can be included in any Aledari army and even if you don't go Ynnari, they provide some fun rules all around and can be quite brutal in fights.

Are you sure you're allowed to take those outside of a Ynnari army?

Either way, bear in mind that most of those HQs' abilities only work on Ynnari units.
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PostSubject: Re: How many HQs?   Mon Jun 26 2017, 12:22

The Shredder wrote:


Are you sure you're allowed to take those outside of a Ynnari army?


Yes you can include what you want in your detachement as long everything have at list one Faction key word in common
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PostSubject: Re: How many HQs?   Mon Jun 26 2017, 12:26

The Shredder wrote:
mightydoughnut wrote:
Remember also that Yvraine, Avatar and to a lesser extent, the Viscarch are also HQ options and can be included in any Aledari army and even if you don't go Ynnari, they provide some fun rules all around and can be quite brutal in fights.

Are you sure you're allowed to take those outside of a Ynnari army?

Either way, bear in mind that most of those HQs' abilities only work on Ynnari units.

Faction picking rules in the Rulebook so yeah, I am pretty sure. Still, aside from HQ abilities, they  bring a solid statline and some neat rules (except the Viscarch, he sucks now).

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PostSubject: Re: How many HQs?   Mon Jun 26 2017, 12:31

The Shredder wrote:
mightydoughnut wrote:
Remember also that Yvraine, Avatar and to a lesser extent, the Viscarch are also HQ options and can be included in any Aledari army and even if you don't go Ynnari, they provide some fun rules all around and can be quite brutal in fights.

Are you sure you're allowed to take those outside of a Ynnari army?

Either way, bear in mind that most of those HQs' abilities only work on Ynnari units.

Yes, you can take them in any Aeldari army. I'd be taking Yvraine and the Visarch and just spamming Smite and Gaze every turn (and in the enemy turn if I get a Soulburst). Shield them with some Warlocks, have The Visarch take any Perils wounds for Yvraine (and then regenerate them) and I reckon they'll probably be quite effective!

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PostSubject: Re: How many HQs?   Mon Jun 26 2017, 12:35

Count Adhemar wrote:


Yes, you can take them in any Aeldari army. I'd be taking Yvraine and the Visarch and just spamming Smite and Gaze every turn (and in the enemy turn if I get a Soulburst). Shield them with some Warlocks, have The Visarch take any Perils wounds for Yvraine (and then regenerate them) and I reckon they'll probably be quite effective!

Dude, you are a genius! I completly forgot about the rule that the Viscarch can take ANY wounds over from Yvraine, not only combat or shooting. Suddenly, he looks way more useful now.

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