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 WHY WOULD I EVER EVER EVER TAKE A RAVAGER. FEAR THE REAPER

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PFI
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PostSubject: WHY WOULD I EVER EVER EVER TAKE A RAVAGER. FEAR THE REAPER   Fri Jun 23 2017, 03:07

So for those of you who haven't seen, the rules for the Reaper got leaked. Head over to 4chan tg to see. Now I warn you, this is shocking news. The Reaper has a cool gun that is no longer haywire It has 2 firing modes, both heavy. The first is 2d6, str 6 ap 0 dmg 1 24". Any unit that suffers a casualty can't advance next turn. The second is heavy d6, str 8, ap-4 dmg d6 with the same ability. So basically, d6 dark lances that suffer the -1 to hit when moving but has that neat new ability. In addition it gets a free BETTER shock prow that does 2 damage, has 5 attacks and has an extra 2 wounds. AND ITS 5 POINTS CHEAPER VS A TRIPLE DARK LANCE RAVAGER. WTFFFF

OH AND DID I MENTION IT CAN BE TAKEN AS HAEMONC COVENS THEREFORE THE HAEMON GIVES IT TOUGH 7!!!!! Guys. convert all your ravagers now. Thank you.

i mean sure i could get a 1 for number of dark lance shots. But there is a 50% chance I roll more dark lance shots and 33% I roll less and so what if I roll less, just use a reroll. Could you imagine for 150 points pumping out 6 dark lances!!!

Enjoy the Reaper guys. Learn to convert or I hope you earn great money and have good luck with Resin sculpting.
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PostSubject: Re: WHY WOULD I EVER EVER EVER TAKE A RAVAGER. FEAR THE REAPER   Fri Jun 23 2017, 03:11

Oh my bad, it explodes on a 5+. The Ravager only explodes on a 6+. So I GUESS that's really bad, unless you know, it dies in melee to your opponent. So decide if that's a pro or a con based on your local meta.
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PostSubject: Re: WHY WOULD I EVER EVER EVER TAKE A RAVAGER. FEAR THE REAPER   Fri Jun 23 2017, 04:18

I don't see it as a negative. More Dakka, More sadistic jihad. Sounds Dark Eldar to me.
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PostSubject: Re: WHY WOULD I EVER EVER EVER TAKE A RAVAGER. FEAR THE REAPER   Fri Jun 23 2017, 04:35

Exactly.. this thing is amazing. I want to convert all my Ravagers to be able to be these things. Or Raiders. Who knows. The Tantalus is neat too but this thing is just such a stand out choice.
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PostSubject: Re: WHY WOULD I EVER EVER EVER TAKE A RAVAGER. FEAR THE REAPER   Fri Jun 23 2017, 04:36

Can you just buy the kit? I have a lot of raiders...
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PostSubject: Re: WHY WOULD I EVER EVER EVER TAKE A RAVAGER. FEAR THE REAPER   Fri Jun 23 2017, 04:36

You glossed over the biggest disadvantage a bit - the Heavy type for its main gun, meaning it'll be hitting on 4s if it moved while Ravagers get to avoid that. That means your average roll for number of lance shots - 7/2 (16% better than the stock Ravager) - effectively becomes 7/3 (22% worse than the stock Ravager) if you move. While I haven't fielded a Ravager in 8th yet, I do have a few games under my belt and don't recall ever having a turn where I had any of my units stand still.

That said, the marginally cheaper price, better assault capability (why did they give this thing 5 attacks?), and most significantly the anti-horde utility of the other firing mode do make the Reaper a solid choice. I'll field them if for no other reason than the fact that I have a pair painted.

Edit: D'oh, neglected the fact that it has 12 wounds as opposed to 10. That alone gives it a huge boost to appeal.
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PostSubject: Re: WHY WOULD I EVER EVER EVER TAKE A RAVAGER. FEAR THE REAPER   Fri Jun 23 2017, 05:33

@MHaruspex wrote:
You glossed over the biggest disadvantage a bit - the Heavy type for its main gun, meaning it'll be hitting on 4s if it moved while Ravagers get to avoid that. That means your average roll for number of lance shots - 7/2 (16% better than the stock Ravager) - effectively becomes 7/3 (22% worse than the stock Ravager) if you move. While I haven't fielded a Ravager in 8th yet, I do have a few games under my belt and don't recall ever having a turn where I had any of my units stand still.


Except that, in 8th, Heavy weapons mounted on a vehicle become assault. Same as on Ravagers and Raiders.
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PostSubject: Re: WHY WOULD I EVER EVER EVER TAKE A RAVAGER. FEAR THE REAPER   Fri Jun 23 2017, 05:40

@DingK wrote:
@MHaruspex wrote:
You glossed over the biggest disadvantage a bit - the Heavy type for its main gun, meaning it'll be hitting on 4s if it moved while Ravagers get to avoid that. That means your average roll for number of lance shots - 7/2 (16% better than the stock Ravager) - effectively becomes 7/3 (22% worse than the stock Ravager) if you move. While I haven't fielded a Ravager in 8th yet, I do have a few games under my belt and don't recall ever having a turn where I had any of my units stand still.


Except that, in 8th, Heavy weapons mounted on a vehicle become assault. Same as on Ravagers and Raiders.

And?

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PostSubject: Re: WHY WOULD I EVER EVER EVER TAKE A RAVAGER. FEAR THE REAPER   Fri Jun 23 2017, 05:40

That rule is specific to the unit entry of the ravager, raider, etc. In 20 minutes I can download my index and tell you for sure if that rule is on the reapers sheet.

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PostSubject: Re: WHY WOULD I EVER EVER EVER TAKE A RAVAGER. FEAR THE REAPER   Fri Jun 23 2017, 05:46

@HERO wrote:
@DingK wrote:
@MHaruspex wrote:
You glossed over the biggest disadvantage a bit - the Heavy type for its main gun, meaning it'll be hitting on 4s if it moved while Ravagers get to avoid that. That means your average roll for number of lance shots - 7/2 (16% better than the stock Ravager) - effectively becomes 7/3 (22% worse than the stock Ravager) if you move. While I haven't fielded a Ravager in 8th yet, I do have a few games under my belt and don't recall ever having a turn where I had any of my units stand still.


Except that, in 8th, Heavy weapons mounted on a vehicle become assault. Same as on Ravagers and Raiders.

And?

If the Reaper has the same rule, it won't get the -1 penalty to hit either. I.e. one of the biggest disadvantages wouldn't apply.
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PostSubject: Re: WHY WOULD I EVER EVER EVER TAKE A RAVAGER. FEAR THE REAPER   Fri Jun 23 2017, 05:54

24" range means you're more than likely going to have to move and then fire. The dual firing modes is nice though will definitely help if hordes become the new meta.
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PostSubject: Re: WHY WOULD I EVER EVER EVER TAKE A RAVAGER. FEAR THE REAPER   Fri Jun 23 2017, 06:16

It doesn't have the ignore -1 to hit when moving rule, but I'm thinking you design your army for the alpha strike. Take farseer for doom, 3 of these, big scourges units and big mandrake units. Try and get maybe 10 units to guarantee the first turn vs anything but the most elite of elite armies, always deploy these things in spots with good sight lines and that first turn is going to neuter an enemy. Honestly, you probably could avoid not moving these things for a turn and it wouldn't be a big deal unless it was maelstrom. I just think these things are amazing.

And yes if you have to hose through a unit of conscripts, this would work much better than the OG Ravager

Oh and if you think the penalty to hit and move is a big deal, then I'm sure you also wouldn't take lances on scourges, but they still make a good cheap heavy weapon team and clock in at the same points. You have a 50% chance to make this thing shoot the same or more shots than scourges and it is more than twice as durable for the same cost. I just think the Reaper is such a good package. It has a lot more to offer and while the standard Ravager is efficient and reliable, this has much more potential almost all around. Better combat, better durability, in many cases better shooting.

Also quick math, a ravager with 3 shots that moves would get 2 hits, but a reaper that rolls 4 shots and moves would also get 2 hits. Now you could also get 3, 2 or 1, but it might also not have to move and then quite often, it will perform better.

Sorry my posts are long but I am quite excited about this thing, I'm trying to convert some excess raiders into them right now.


Last edited by PFI on Fri Jun 23 2017, 06:25; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: WHY WOULD I EVER EVER EVER TAKE A RAVAGER. FEAR THE REAPER   Fri Jun 23 2017, 06:24

Just checked and the beam mode is 36" range so with some careful deployment may not have to move before firing.
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PostSubject: Re: WHY WOULD I EVER EVER EVER TAKE A RAVAGER. FEAR THE REAPER   Fri Jun 23 2017, 09:00

@DingK wrote:
Except that, in 8th, Heavy weapons mounted on a vehicle become assault. Same as on Ravagers and Raiders.
That is Dark Lance and Disintegrator only, not a generic rule for vehicles as per 7th.

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PostSubject: Re: WHY WOULD I EVER EVER EVER TAKE A RAVAGER. FEAR THE REAPER   Fri Jun 23 2017, 15:58

Thanks for the news! I do think that hitting on 4s when moving kinda sucks, but would def consider using this guy to augment my ravagers, not replace them entirely. I'm glad they made it good. Altho I hate the model haha

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PostSubject: Re: WHY WOULD I EVER EVER EVER TAKE A RAVAGER. FEAR THE REAPER   Fri Jun 23 2017, 17:32

And now I know what I want to supplement my Dark Eldar with. Was thinking that I need something in between that is not a flyer. Problem solved.

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PostSubject: Re: WHY WOULD I EVER EVER EVER TAKE A RAVAGER. FEAR THE REAPER   Fri Jun 23 2017, 18:20

@PFI wrote:
So for those of you who haven't seen, the rules for the Reaper got leaked. Head over to 4chan tg to see. Now I warn you, this is shocking news. The Reaper has a cool gun that is no longer haywire It has 2 firing modes, both heavy. The first is 2d6, str 6 ap 0 dmg 1 24". Any unit that suffers a casualty can't advance next turn. The second is heavy d6, str 8, ap-4 dmg d6 with the same ability. So basically, d6 dark lances that suffer the -1 to hit when moving but has that neat new ability. In addition it gets a free BETTER shock prow that does 2 damage, has 5 attacks and has an extra 2 wounds. AND ITS 5 POINTS CHEAPER VS A TRIPLE DARK LANCE RAVAGER. WTFFFF

OH AND DID I MENTION IT CAN BE TAKEN AS HAEMONC COVENS THEREFORE THE HAEMON GIVES IT TOUGH 7!!!!! Guys. convert all your ravagers now. Thank you.

i mean sure i could get a 1 for number of dark lance shots. But there is a 50% chance I roll more dark lance shots and 33% I roll less and so what if I roll less, just use a reroll. Could you imagine for 150 points pumping out 6 dark lances!!!

Enjoy the Reaper guys. Learn to convert or I hope you earn great money and have good luck with Resin sculpting.


Pretty meh for me...still prefer the Dissy Ravager.
Or even both Razorwing and Voidraven
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PostSubject: Re: WHY WOULD I EVER EVER EVER TAKE A RAVAGER. FEAR THE REAPER   Fri Jun 23 2017, 18:46

If you go coven you lose the ability to have it use your archon's leadership! ... oh wait that is the crappiest ability I've seen so far.

This things sounds cool, finally dark eldar are getting something from forgeworld that's worth putting on the table. I've been playing dark eldar forever and forgeworld has always been something my friends get cool stuff from.

In general what is the Tantalus now?
Is there anything else at all for Dark eldar in that book?

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PostSubject: Re: WHY WOULD I EVER EVER EVER TAKE A RAVAGER. FEAR THE REAPER   Fri Jun 23 2017, 23:09

@Seshiru wrote:
If you go coven you lose the ability to have it use your archon's leadership! ... oh wait that is the crappiest ability I've seen so far.

This things sounds cool, finally dark eldar are getting something from forgeworld that's worth putting on the table. I've been playing dark eldar forever and forgeworld has always been something my friends get cool stuff from.

In general what is the Tantalus now?
Is there anything else at all for Dark eldar in that book?

Well... technically we should have the "Raven". Unless they haven't removed it from the collection entirely by now.
The model looks bad and has a history of having terrible rules.

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PostSubject: Re: WHY WOULD I EVER EVER EVER TAKE A RAVAGER. FEAR THE REAPER   Sat Jun 24 2017, 00:37

it wasnt given rules
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PostSubject: Re: WHY WOULD I EVER EVER EVER TAKE A RAVAGER. FEAR THE REAPER   Sat Jun 24 2017, 01:39

Well i have the rules now too (DL them, i have all the FW books there are links out there to get them).

Its 5pts difference for 1D6 Lances but its Heavy.

If you wanted to use Command points you can get a 5/6 roll a couple times a game, but honestly for me the Ravager is better.

The +1 toughness is.... cute, but here is the problem Coven wants to be close, the Reaper wants to be mid to far range, you will always never e in range of the Haemonculus, if you start him on the field turn 1 then you are wasting movement to get it into combat where it want to be along with Wracks/Grots.

It is cool and it is Playable, its a great option, the BIG pro to the Reaper is the 2 mode weapon, 2D6 S6 is very good, but again its heavy.

I feel it will have its place, but its any better than the Ravager.

With that said i will convert oone of my Ravagers (I have 5.....) into a Reaper, but i think i will continue to take 2 Ravagers (I like Raiders/Ravagers a lot)

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PostSubject: Re: WHY WOULD I EVER EVER EVER TAKE A RAVAGER. FEAR THE REAPER   Sat Jun 24 2017, 17:23

At first I thought the post was sarcastic...
It's decent but there's very little reason to prefer it over a Ravager, random is bad. -1 to hit is bad, specially because you can't always think "oh yeah, alpha strike, I'm going first", so ideally you want to start behind LoS blocking terrain or at least somewhere where you can negate most 1st turn incoming shooting, which means, you'll need to move.
As far the d6 goes, other than the fact that random is bad, after 4 turns you'll have shot an average of 14 shots against the 12 from the Ravager (if you ever survive that long that is, otherwise the difference become even less relevant), take away chance to hit for every turn you had to move it and you'll see that the advantage disappears completely.
If you think using it to assault as well (unlikely) then you'll have to move it hampering your shooting, if it stays back you need to keep distance from everything else because there's a 50% more chance that it will go boom...
Nah, FW is going to see my cash only for the Tantalus this time.
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PostSubject: Re: WHY WOULD I EVER EVER EVER TAKE A RAVAGER. FEAR THE REAPER   Sat Jun 24 2017, 18:33

Problem with the Reaper is that it is a cheaper Ravager without its strongest advantage: Assault instead of Heavy.

If it had some more range and better ap I could imagine it as an equivalent to the Fire Prism, but with those rules it has a pretty bad identity crisis.

@Drugo wrote:
... If you think using it to assault as well (unlikely) then you'll have to move it hampering your shooting, if it stays back you need to keep distance from everything else because there's a 50% more chance that it will go boom...

5+ actually means 33%. But you are pretty much correct about the rest


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PostSubject: Re: WHY WOULD I EVER EVER EVER TAKE A RAVAGER. FEAR THE REAPER   Sun Jun 25 2017, 03:25

@The Strange Dark One wrote:


@Drugo wrote:
... If you think using it to assault as well (unlikely) then you'll have to move it hampering your shooting, if it stays back you need to keep distance from everything else because there's a 50% more chance that it will go boom...

5+ actually means 33%. But you are pretty much correct about the rest


Yep at this stage I think I know a 5+ is a 33% chance... I didn't say there's a 50% chance to explode, I said there's a 50% MORE chance for it to happen, which coincidentally is wrong anyway, it's twice as likely to happen and my brain went "50%!" but no, it's a 100% increase actually...
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