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Dark Elf Dave
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PostSubject: Urien Rakarth   Tue Jun 20 2017, 13:21

Hi All

Sorry if this has already been covered.

Urien Rakarth gives a buff to Prophets of Flesh units within 6" but who else has this keyword? Does this mean he doesn't give a buff to units like Wracks? Also if somehow he did give a buff to Wracks could a Heamy also give a further buff? So +1T from each HQ?
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LordSplata
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PostSubject: Re: Urien Rakarth   Tue Jun 20 2017, 13:30

The Prophets of flesh are urien's coven. So if your wracks have the same haemonoculous coven as him then they get his benefit. In the same way as a regular haemi delivers his bonus.

With the double stacking, no because they have the same ability name so they override each other
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Keast Kannegaard
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PostSubject: Re: Urien Rakarth   Tue Jun 20 2017, 13:54

Urien only buffs coven units declared to be "Prophets of Flesh". Now atm that's not a problem as you can just declare your coven units to be from "Prophets of Flesh".

If you look at the necron HQs Nemesor (Sautekh) and Trazyn (Nihilakh), both got the same rule, but only buff the units that is declared be either from the Suatekh or Nihilakh dynasty.

Ofc naming your coven "Prophets of Flesh" might conflict, if you insists your coven units are "Prophets of Hide", but currently, as there aren't any other coven specific units, its probably just a taste of what's to come.
That means we can look forward to more named characters in the future, with their own kabal buffs.

Lelith got the same "rule" btw. Her buff only works on "Cult of Strife".
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Dark Elf Dave
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PostSubject: Re: Urien Rakarth   Tue Jun 20 2017, 14:49

Right ok so that makes sense...but was this written in the rules as such? Because I couldn't find anything so that's pretty poor from GW.

I did see the part about naming your Kabals/Cults/Covens...but I don't remember that section talking about Lelith or Rakarth which wouldn't have taken much effort.
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Hen Tai, the tentacle guy
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PostSubject: Re: Urien Rakarth   Tue Jun 20 2017, 15:29

It is written in the rules. Look up keywords in the core rule index. It was further specified in the faq, so that you can't name an astra militarum detachment prophets of flesh to gain the same benefits.

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PostSubject: Re: Urien Rakarth   Tue Jun 20 2017, 15:39

But this assumes a lot of knowledge of those characters. No were is it mentioned that prophets of the flesh are a Coven unit?
If I made some stupid assumption that Prophets of the flesh is a wych cult. I make a my wych cult prophets of the flesh. This of course is not legal since the Q&A but there is nothing actually specifying this. Or am I wrong here?

Considering a newb he just goes, ow this guy is cool. And he buffs prophets, of the flesh.
Those wyches show a lot of skin, I will make them prophets of the flesh to, since it mentions I can name them something and prophets of the flesh are as likely to be a wych cult as a coven unit.
Now cult of strife at least has the cult word in there to give you a hint.
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Hen Tai, the tentacle guy
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PostSubject: Re: Urien Rakarth   Tue Jun 20 2017, 15:48

Prophets of flesh is a coven faction. It is implied if you see the other keywords of urien. The keyword system begins vague like : aeldari- and then specifies further, like drukhari to coven to coven subfaction (prophets of flesh).

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PostSubject: Re: Urien Rakarth   Wed Jun 21 2017, 08:46

No if that would be the case it would be great and clear. But urien does not have the Coven keyword. just a subfaction (prophets of flesh) is it mentioned anywere that prophets of the flesh is a heamuncolus coven?
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Squidmaster
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PostSubject: Re: Urien Rakarth   Wed Jun 21 2017, 09:18

Actually, thats an interesting point.

Lilith's rules specifically says "WYCH CULT of Strife".

Nowehere in Rakarth's rules does it say that Prophets Of Flesh is a Haemonculus Coven.
For those of us who have been in the game a while, we know it is. But to a new player, theres absolutely no indication.....

I guess common sense has to come in at some point, because WE know that in narrative terms PoF is a Coven.
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Dark Elf Dave
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PostSubject: Re: Urien Rakarth   Wed Jun 21 2017, 12:18

I just feel like when it comes to rules like this it needs to be implicit and it isn't. The rules are written in a way that requires a good understanding of keywords and unit history etc which it shouldn't.

First of all why do we need to name the Coven a specific name (Prophets of Flesh)? Why couldn't it read like the Heamy rules?
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Count Adhemar
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PostSubject: Re: Urien Rakarth   Wed Jun 21 2017, 12:22

@Dark Elf Dave wrote:
First of all why do we need to name the Coven a specific name (Prophets of Flesh)?  Why couldn't it read like the Heamy rules?

GW seem to be moving away from their previous idea of using whatever models you want and now seem to want to stick 100% to their fluff in terms of who is in what army. You cannot take Dante in a Blood Angels successor chapter. You cannot take Imotekh in another Necron Dynasty. You cannot take Urien in a coven other than the one that he belongs to (although it would help if they actually described it as such).

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PostSubject: Re: Urien Rakarth   Wed Jun 21 2017, 12:23

I can see how it makes sense for other Factions, such as Marine Chapters for example. Calgar is a specific Chapter for example, and shouldn't be buffing other Chapters in the same way.
So its probably a case of keeping coherent, even though theres no other named Covens in the rules.
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Daevohk
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PostSubject: Re: Urien Rakarth   Tue Jun 27 2017, 20:06

@Count Adhemar wrote:
@Dark Elf Dave wrote:
First of all why do we need to name the Coven a specific name (Prophets of Flesh)?  Why couldn't it read like the Heamy rules?

GW seem to be moving away from their previous idea of using whatever models you want and now seem to want to stick 100% to their fluff in terms of who is in what army. You cannot take Dante in a Blood Angels successor chapter. You cannot take Imotekh in another Necron Dynasty. You cannot take Urien in a coven other than the one that he belongs to (although it would help if they actually described it as such).

Yes exactly, it just doesn't make any sense because all it requires is some silly semantics to circumvent.

"This is my custom coven, who is technically the Prophets of Flesh, but we use different colors and different names and my own made up lore and I have a different nickname for Urien too. But he is technically Urien Rakarth from the Prophets of Flesh, and my guys are the Prophets of Flesh too... except they secretly aren't in my heart of hearts."
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Shadows Revenge
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PostSubject: Re: Urien Rakarth   Tue Jun 27 2017, 21:49

@Daevohk wrote:
@Count Adhemar wrote:
@Dark Elf Dave wrote:
First of all why do we need to name the Coven a specific name (Prophets of Flesh)?  Why couldn't it read like the Heamy rules?

GW seem to be moving away from their previous idea of using whatever models you want and now seem to want to stick 100% to their fluff in terms of who is in what army. You cannot take Dante in a Blood Angels successor chapter. You cannot take Imotekh in another Necron Dynasty. You cannot take Urien in a coven other than the one that he belongs to (although it would help if they actually described it as such).

Yes exactly, it just doesn't make any sense because all it requires is some silly semantics to circumvent.

"This is my custom coven, who is technically the Prophets of Flesh, but we use different colors and different names and my own made up lore and I have a different nickname for Urien too. But he is technically Urien Rakarth from the Prophets of Flesh, and my guys are the Prophets of Flesh too... except they secretly aren't in my heart of hearts."

Why is this wrong though? Game terms your opponent doesnt need to know the fluff of your army and their background. All he cares about is which model is Urien Rakarth and which units he can buff. As long as your clear and concise, no one would care what you do.

Have Dante in a blood angel successor chapter. Just remember that Dante only buffs other chapter: Blood Angels, and you cant take Calgar as well and get buffs from him, as he is Chapter: Ultramarines

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PostSubject: Re: Urien Rakarth   Tue Jun 27 2017, 22:21

Well.. If I'd see a blue smurf army using Dante and claiming to be a blood angel army, I'm claiming my opponents head.

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PostSubject: Re: Urien Rakarth   Tue Jun 27 2017, 23:09

Can Urien buff his own toughness?
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PostSubject: Re: Urien Rakarth   Wed Jun 28 2017, 05:05

A model is always within range of itself. So long as it has the right keyword to benefit from the ability, they do. Urein is a Prophet of Flesh, and therefore T7.

Edit: Source is the BRB page 179 in the corner margin about aura abilities. Its on the SHOOTING PHASE page if you don't have the brb
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Dark Elf Dave
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PostSubject: Re: Urien Rakarth   Wed Jun 28 2017, 10:01

@Masochist-of-Slaanesh wrote:
A model is always within range of itself. So long as it has the right keyword to benefit from the ability, they do. Urein is a Prophet of Flesh, and therefore T7.

Edit: Source is the BRB page 179 in the corner margin about aura abilities. Its on the SHOOTING PHASE page if you don't have the brb

Is this correct? So does a heamy have +1T?
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PostSubject: Re: Urien Rakarth   Wed Jun 28 2017, 10:48

Yes. it even says in the BRB about Abilities on the side (read the side parts too they have rules) all characters with an ability gets that ability.

But For the points, killyness and the abilities, i find the Haemonculus a better choice.

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PostSubject: Re: Urien Rakarth   Wed Jun 28 2017, 11:45

@CptMetal wrote:
Well.. If I'd see a blue smurf army using Dante and claiming to be a blood angel army, I'm claiming my opponents head.

This is why they say it is illegal.
Although I say, hey it was casual friday so today my blood angels did not have to stick to their normal colours.
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PostSubject: Re: Urien Rakarth   Wed Jun 28 2017, 18:57

@CptMetal wrote:
Well.. If I'd see a blue smurf army using Dante and claiming to be a blood angel army, I'm claiming my opponents head.

As long as the rest of the army or the units that are being buffed by Dante keyworded as "blood angels", why is this a problem? 40k is made for the hobbyist first, gamer second. It always has. As long as they are following the rules and are not using Dante to buff Chapter "Raven Guard" Units, who cares what they are painted.

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PostSubject: Re: Urien Rakarth   Wed Jun 28 2017, 20:48

I have a little experience to share with a 1000 pt game that I used urien in, I faced war convocation, my opponent was using cawl, I didn't get urien into close combat so I can't vouch for that but he was outa range from all of his shooting except a str 10 cannon, he shoots the cannon at urien hits and wounds with one shot, this was the last turn so he was doing what he could to get "slay the warlord" my first save roll failed so he straight up tells me that urien is dead and he wins the game, I pointed out to him that urien has a rerollable 4++ save against anything strength 9 or higher. I rerolled the save and his face went from Glee to outrage as the reroll made the save and urien walked off holding one of the objectives which secured me the win, having only one Cronos a haemy and urien left after 6 turns (he made the roll to continue after 5 otherwise I woulda won 4-1 instead of 3-2) I've only used him once and that was what I got outa him. He stood there and laughed at my opponents strongest weapon and walked off cackling, planning his next realspace raid that will probably happen sometime in the next thousand years ... Having secured an important piece of machinery from the clutches of Mars and the imperium
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amishprn86
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PostSubject: Re: Urien Rakarth   Wed Jun 28 2017, 20:55

You mean 9 or less right? You re-rolls S1-9 not 10+, (its old school ID)

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Archon_91
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PostSubject: Re: Urien Rakarth   Wed Jun 28 2017, 21:14

In that case we read the rule wrong ... And now I cheated ... I'll have to tell my opponent the next time I see him and offer a rematch.
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PostSubject: Re: Urien Rakarth   Wed Jun 28 2017, 21:19

It happens no biggy at all, its all new rules takes time to get through them all.

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