HomeDark Eldar WikiDark Eldar ResourcesNull CityFAQUsergroupsRegisterLog in
Share | 
 

 First game experience and impression

View previous topic View next topic Go down 
Go to page : Previous  1, 2, 3
AuthorMessage
helvexis
Sybarite
avatar

Posts : 330
Join date : 2012-04-02
Location : Perth, Western Australia

PostSubject: Re: First game experience and impression   Tue Jun 20 2017, 10:02

@TeenageAngst wrote:
And everyone who hated DftS never played it. If I took the time to model and paint and write narrative and play with my wing leader to kill a ton of dakka jets, and he gets a 5+ invul save and a better BS, is that really so broken? Is that a gamechanger? Did it really need to be removed? I guess so, we can't have anything fun or complex in the game now.

how does having a 5+ invul save and a better chance to hit NOT affect the game on a major level? yes from a purely narrative point it is awesome, i really liked the idea. but from a pure game balance viewpoint it was ridiculous.

@TeenageAngst wrote:
The game has the tactical depth of a spoon
This complaint i  completely disagree with 40ks technical depth has always been shallow, 90% of it revolving around positioning and target prioritizing. Which you still need to do and only made a difference for vehicles with multiple armour facings.

and the complaint about sponsons being able to shoot through themselves is a moot point when tanks could spin like a bloody top and not actually count as having moved
Back to top Go down
Ikol
Sybarite
avatar

Posts : 437
Join date : 2017-03-20
Location : Perth

PostSubject: Re: First game experience and impression   Tue Jun 20 2017, 10:38

On the topic of vehicles and "sponsons firing through Tanks", we have this glorious image (not my own) which highlights another issue with vehicles no longer targeting from their weapon.
[url=https://servimg.com/view/19699906/2]

_________________
This world exists because of the things we have done, forever branching to the decisions we make and twisting to what we do not.

Woe to our enemies. We'll tear them apart regardless.
Back to top Go down
eris
Hellion


Posts : 50
Join date : 2011-06-08

PostSubject: Re: First game experience and impression   Tue Jun 20 2017, 10:46

@Dark Elf Dave wrote:
I don't know how Orks do with the conversion of power points over normal points but there are some armies that seriously gain more from power points play.

Even just some units..

e.g. for 6 power points you can have 5 naked Scourge..
or..
5 Truborn with 4 blasters, agoniser, blast pistol and phantasm, plus 3 razorwing flocks.

in actual points that 70 vs 153 (i think)

so while power points can be good for quick friendly games, beware those who use it to exploit the **** out of some power point costings.

i'd make the switch to proper points as soon as you're happy to.
Back to top Go down
TeenageAngst
Hekatrix
avatar

Posts : 1353
Join date : 2016-08-28

PostSubject: Re: First game experience and impression   Tue Jun 20 2017, 11:21

Quote :
Have you actually played 8th yet?

Yes, and it was dull.

Quote :
how does having a 5+ invul save and a better chance to hit NOT affect the game on a major level? yes from a purely narrative point it is awesome, i really liked the idea. but from a pure game balance viewpoint it was ridiculous.

I guarantee you never had to deal with it. And it was not broken at all, not when fliers were considered next to useless on 7th edition.

You ain't gonna tell me it's black when I know it's white. I've played fun, tactical games of 7th and I've played 8th. It's boring, it's dull, the units all feel the same, vehicles are boring, monstrous creatures are useless, gargantuans are just asking to get blown up, and infantry spam is a grind to deal with.

_________________
Really terrible videos about tiny plastic space elfs intended to help you get gud scrub:
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCcZP8WGIhte5TmCWQXsZO4A

Flawless pieces of literary perfection:
https://www.fanfiction.net/u/2805979/
Back to top Go down
CptMetal
Trueborn
avatar

Posts : 2679
Join date : 2015-03-02
Location : Ruhr Metropolian Area

PostSubject: Re: First game experience and impression   Tue Jun 20 2017, 11:41

Thanks for you helpful insight. Before it develops to just another complaining only because of hurt feelings because ones favorite units don't work anymore, please put your rant in the appropriate thread and don't clog this one where everyone else is discussing solutions and ideas.

Thank you.

_________________
+++++INCOMING TRANSMISSION+++++
The Dark Eldar Codex sucks. You probably won just because your enemy loaded his dice to loose. Never forget this mantra and spread the word. Mention it in every discussion possible, people can´t get enough of that valuable information and need to be reminded regularely.
+++++END OF TRANSMISSION+++++
http://www.thedarkcity.net/t12720-tainted-reborn
Back to top Go down
amishprn86
Klaivex
avatar

Posts : 2007
Join date : 2014-10-03
Location : Ohio

PostSubject: Re: First game experience and impression   Tue Jun 20 2017, 12:24

A few things for me,

The thing about 40k for me sense it is a "You go, I go" style play is that it doesnt show any real death at all , its like you are frozen in time then you get to do, b.c 1 side gets to shoot everything then the other side does too.

Vehicles shoot: perfect example, you can shoot anywhere on the vehicles, this shows that you were getting lined up and shooting against all targets

Picking Casualties: You wanted to be that close, then leave them take close and take the back guys, they where ordered or though it be a good idea to be that close, if you feel it was a bad move then you take the casualties from the front guys. Also you never take the special weapon guys b.c the other guys can pick up the weapon and just continue with it, its an important weapon.


Sense 40k doesnt have "you pick 1 unit then I pick 1 unit" and it doesnt use command points to be able to pick 2 units, or to suppress fire and stop other units from moving etc... I feel these new rules set is MUCH better for "you play your whole armies turn then i do too"

_________________
New to Blogging, just starting https://maddpaint.blogspot.com/

Harlequins 3k+
Dark Eldar 10k+
Tyranids 10k+
SOB 3k+
Painted 4k points
Back to top Go down
stevethedestroyeofworlds
Kabalite Warrior
avatar

Posts : 169
Join date : 2016-05-22

PostSubject: Re: First game experience and impression   Tue Jun 20 2017, 23:44

Played my first game of 8th today, had a mix of harlequins and DEldar.
It feels like harlequins massively outclass out melee units, and the shadowseer's buffs make the succubus and archon look kinda useless.
Our grotesques have a very important role of soaking overwatch for the space clowns though.

In my game, I brought down 3 scourges with 4 blasters each, and they seem absolutely devastating, plus are yet another threat near the enemy to limit the shooting at the melee units.

haven't tried much shooting stuff other than venoms, which seem really hampered by the changes

_________________
"Enemies are everywhere. Wisdom comes from knowing which ones to eliminate first"-Asdrubael Vect
Back to top Go down
amishprn86
Klaivex
avatar

Posts : 2007
Join date : 2014-10-03
Location : Ohio

PostSubject: Re: First game experience and impression   Wed Jun 21 2017, 00:17

Harlequins are the "Elite Melee units" of all the Eldar kins, they should be extremely effective compare to our CC units.

How many Grots did you have? I'm thinking of bringing them, i havent yet in 8th, to many things to test out lol Shocked

I like Blaster Scourges too, glad to see they are working well.

_________________
New to Blogging, just starting https://maddpaint.blogspot.com/

Harlequins 3k+
Dark Eldar 10k+
Tyranids 10k+
SOB 3k+
Painted 4k points
Back to top Go down
Dark Elf Dave
Sybarite
avatar

Posts : 344
Join date : 2017-05-19

PostSubject: Re: First game experience and impression   Wed Jun 21 2017, 04:27

I also agree that Blaster Scourges seem a good way to go...less points than other hard hitting weapon options and can move and shoot without penalty which is what you want Scourges to be doing.
Back to top Go down
stevethedestroyeofworlds
Kabalite Warrior
avatar

Posts : 169
Join date : 2016-05-22

PostSubject: Re: First game experience and impression   Wed Jun 21 2017, 10:23

@amishprn86 wrote:
Harlequins are the "Elite Melee units" of all the Eldar kins, they should be extremely effective compare to our CC units.
I know, but given the buffs to harlequins, and the fact that wyches are still trash, it seems like there's no reason to ever take something other than harlies and grots for melee. Incubi are a little cheaper, but lack a lot of the mobility and crazy buffs.
Quote :

How many Grots did you have? I'm thinking of bringing them, i havent yet in 8th, to many things to test out lol  Shocked
2X3 units of grotesques, each in a raider. Mostly because that's all I have Very Happy
They're great meat shields
Quote :

I like Blaster Scourges too, glad to see they are working well.
Yeah, they're great. Plus, with scatterless deepstrike, and no interceptor, they can bring the pain exactly where its needed

_________________
"Enemies are everywhere. Wisdom comes from knowing which ones to eliminate first"-Asdrubael Vect
Back to top Go down
Woozl
Kabalite Warrior
avatar

Posts : 130
Join date : 2015-01-02

PostSubject: Re: First game experience and impression   Wed Jun 21 2017, 10:29

I've been less than impressed with Grots so far. FNP can't be boosted to 4+ anymore, same 3 wounds, many more multi-wound shooting platforms, expensive points wise.

Anyone else done better with them?
Back to top Go down
FunkyGroove
Slave
avatar

Posts : 12
Join date : 2015-07-14
Location : California

PostSubject: Re: First game experience and impression   Wed Jun 21 2017, 11:46

@Woozl wrote:
I've been less than impressed with Grots so far. FNP can't be boosted to 4+ anymore, same 3 wounds, many more multi-wound shooting platforms, expensive points wise.

Anyone else done better with them?

Had a good experience with a 4-man grotesque squadron with a haem behind them against a Space Wolves player. Instead of sending them on a suicidal mission with them in like I used to do with the Grotesquerie formation, I used them as a front line for my gun boats. Took a charge from a rune priest on a bike and a wolf lord on a wolf with only 1 grotesque dying. They stepped back on my turn for his units to be shot up.

I still need to see how well they could survive under a large volume of attacks but against specialized melee characters they seem to do just fine. That being said, I do agree with you about grotesques being weaker than last edition.

If you are facing multi-wound shooting platforms, I would use them like last edition, put them in a raider and move them up as far as you can during the first turn. Forces your opponent to answer them, protecting your guns for another turn. Besides, the grotesques get the same saves against a lascannon as they do a lasgun.
Back to top Go down
Woozl
Kabalite Warrior
avatar

Posts : 130
Join date : 2015-01-02

PostSubject: Re: First game experience and impression   Wed Jun 21 2017, 11:51

Agreed, good points. I'm inclined not to support them with a character in that instance. Probably would only provide character support if I used multiple units for threat saturation (as an actual assault threat rather than meat shields.

I agree they would draw lascannon fire, and they do save the same, the downside is you're likely to lose a whole grot per las cannon hit (post-raider dying). Also, raider explosions are bad for grots (found out the hard way).

I'm wondering if Taloi can serve in this role better as the front line bullet absorber / board control unit.
Back to top Go down
CptMetal
Trueborn
avatar

Posts : 2679
Join date : 2015-03-02
Location : Ruhr Metropolian Area

PostSubject: Re: First game experience and impression   Wed Jun 21 2017, 12:29

Aren't they a buzz slow?

_________________
+++++INCOMING TRANSMISSION+++++
The Dark Eldar Codex sucks. You probably won just because your enemy loaded his dice to loose. Never forget this mantra and spread the word. Mention it in every discussion possible, people can´t get enough of that valuable information and need to be reminded regularely.
+++++END OF TRANSMISSION+++++
http://www.thedarkcity.net/t12720-tainted-reborn
Back to top Go down
amishprn86
Klaivex
avatar

Posts : 2007
Join date : 2014-10-03
Location : Ohio

PostSubject: Re: First game experience and impression   Wed Jun 21 2017, 12:43

@stevethedestroyeofworlds wrote:
@amishprn86 wrote:
Harlequins are the "Elite Melee units" of all the Eldar kins, they should be extremely effective compare to our CC units.
Quote :
I know, but given the buffs to harlequins, and the fact that wyches are still trash, it seems like there's no reason to ever take something other than harlies and grots for melee. Incubi are a little cheaper, but lack a lot of the mobility and crazy buffs.

But Harlequins dont get PFP or drugs, Wyches can be better in some situations they also are 1/2 the cost. Incubi are just as good b.c of the +1 to hit, -3ap with +1S, they are just slower and cant advance and charge.

Each has there pro's and con, sadly they Harlequins has a bit more Por's to Con's

_________________
New to Blogging, just starting https://maddpaint.blogspot.com/

Harlequins 3k+
Dark Eldar 10k+
Tyranids 10k+
SOB 3k+
Painted 4k points
Back to top Go down
The Strange Dark One
Sybarite
avatar

Posts : 452
Join date : 2014-08-22
Location : Private subrealm of the Eldritch Skies Kabal.

PostSubject: Re: First game experience and impression   Wed Jun 21 2017, 13:01

@FunkyGroove wrote:
@Woozl wrote:
I've been less than impressed with Grots so far. FNP can't be boosted to 4+ anymore, same 3 wounds, many more multi-wound shooting platforms, expensive points wise.

Anyone else done better with them?

Had a good experience with a 4-man grotesque squadron with a haem behind them against a Space Wolves player. Instead of sending them on a suicidal mission with them in like I used to do with the Grotesquerie formation, I used them as a front line for my gun boats. Took a charge from a rune priest on a bike and a wolf lord on a wolf with only 1 grotesque dying. They stepped back on my turn for his units to be shot up.

I still need to see how well they could survive under a large volume of attacks but against specialized melee characters they seem to do just fine. That being said, I do agree with you about grotesques being weaker than last edition.

If you are facing multi-wound shooting platforms, I would use them like last edition, put them in a raider and move them up as far as you can during the first turn. Forces your opponent to answer them, protecting your guns for another turn. Besides, the grotesques get the same saves against a lascannon as they do a lasgun.

That has been my experience as well. At first I was terribly disappointed with the Grotesques because the Grotesquerie used to be just that good. But I still found use for them, especially against lesser armored hordes.

You just need to be much more careful what you send them against.
They are still good, but they are just not "great" anymore. Sadly.

_________________
Discontinued: Dark Eldar 7th Codex Redux
A pragmatic custom codex for pragmatic realspace raiders.
Back to top Go down
Count Adhemar
Dark Lord of Granbretan
avatar

Posts : 6794
Join date : 2012-04-26
Location : London

PostSubject: Re: First game experience and impression   Wed Jun 21 2017, 15:06

Had my first game this evening. We played 1000 points with the intent of getting 2 games in but the first game went to turn 6 and we didn't have enough time for the second. I used Succubus, 9 Wyches, Raider, 2 x DL Ravagers, Beastmaster, 6 Flocks, Illic and 2 x 5 Rangers. I was up against Death Guard which was basically 2 squads of Plague Marines, a couple of Lords, a Sorceror, a Helbrute and a Blight Drone. Ended in a comfortable 9-4 win for the True Kin. Enjoyed the game, the rules didn't cause us any problems and it seemed like a fairly even battle decided in the last turn by me blasting the Sorceror off an objective with both Ravagers.

There was a lot that I liked about 8e but there are a couple of major issues that I felt really detract from the game, those being the removal of fire arcs and vehicle facings. Being able to fire weapons in any direction from the end of a shock prow, or the tip of a sail just seemed utterly ridiculous. Similarly, being able to present your rear armour to the enemy gunline and know that it makes no difference just feels wrong.

Overall though, we both enjoyed our first 8e game.

_________________

You have been weighed, you have been measured, and you have been found wanting. In what world could you possibly beat me?
Back to top Go down
amishprn86
Klaivex
avatar

Posts : 2007
Join date : 2014-10-03
Location : Ohio

PostSubject: Re: First game experience and impression   Wed Jun 21 2017, 15:42

I like no fire arcs, makes me feel like my turn isnt static and i can pivot > shoot > pivot > shoot, or shooting while moving (b.c you know we should be able to do that).

About the sail, yeah that is silly and needs to be faq's to say not from Sails, tails, or decorations such as stick, spikes etc...

_________________
New to Blogging, just starting https://maddpaint.blogspot.com/

Harlequins 3k+
Dark Eldar 10k+
Tyranids 10k+
SOB 3k+
Painted 4k points
Back to top Go down
|Meavar
Wych
avatar

Posts : 669
Join date : 2017-01-25

PostSubject: Re: First game experience and impression   Wed Jun 21 2017, 23:00

I don't see it as shooting from the sail, but just moving upwards a little bit before going back down again to hide from the return fire.
Back to top Go down
amishprn86
Klaivex
avatar

Posts : 2007
Join date : 2014-10-03
Location : Ohio

PostSubject: Re: First game experience and impression   Wed Jun 21 2017, 23:01

@|Meavar wrote:
I don't see it as shooting from the sail, but just moving upwards a little bit before going back down again to hide from the return fire.

lol nice idea alien

_________________
New to Blogging, just starting https://maddpaint.blogspot.com/

Harlequins 3k+
Dark Eldar 10k+
Tyranids 10k+
SOB 3k+
Painted 4k points
Back to top Go down
Count Adhemar
Dark Lord of Granbretan
avatar

Posts : 6794
Join date : 2012-04-26
Location : London

PostSubject: Re: First game experience and impression   Thu Jun 22 2017, 01:35

I just feel that it removed a tactical element from the game that didn't need removing. Simplicity isn't everything.

_________________

You have been weighed, you have been measured, and you have been found wanting. In what world could you possibly beat me?
Back to top Go down
helvexis
Sybarite
avatar

Posts : 330
Join date : 2012-04-02
Location : Perth, Western Australia

PostSubject: Re: First game experience and impression   Thu Jun 22 2017, 10:44

Eh if you can shoot from a sail or antenna then i can target the sail or antenna, so im not too fussed
Back to top Go down
CptMetal
Trueborn
avatar

Posts : 2679
Join date : 2015-03-02
Location : Ruhr Metropolian Area

PostSubject: Re: First game experience and impression   Thu Jun 22 2017, 10:52

I'm not sure what the problem is. Just with flyers too. Your units won't move 50 meters in real life to stop and shoot.

_________________
+++++INCOMING TRANSMISSION+++++
The Dark Eldar Codex sucks. You probably won just because your enemy loaded his dice to loose. Never forget this mantra and spread the word. Mention it in every discussion possible, people can´t get enough of that valuable information and need to be reminded regularely.
+++++END OF TRANSMISSION+++++
http://www.thedarkcity.net/t12720-tainted-reborn
Back to top Go down
 
First game experience and impression
View previous topic View next topic Back to top 
Page 3 of 3Go to page : Previous  1, 2, 3

Permissions in this forum:You cannot reply to topics in this forum
THE DARK CITY :: 

GENERAL DARK ELDAR DISCUSSION

 :: Dark Eldar Discussion
-
Jump to: