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Hellstrom
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PostSubject: Talos and/or Cronos   Wed Jun 14 2017, 14:30

Any good? If so, what for? Discuss please Very Happy
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Dizlen
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PostSubject: Re: Talos and/or Cronos   Wed Jun 14 2017, 15:10

Personally I haven't really seen any appeal to the Talos or Cronos since I started playing Dark Eldar. Just looking at their stats right now I think they seem like a pretty good unit to place in the middle of the map to absorb shots while your other units get in close. Having two heat lances on the Talos could be pretty devastating to vehicles that get too close. They both just seem like big bruisers that can absorb some fire and dish out some good damage back - the auto hits on the liquifier gun seem nice but you would need to be lucky with the AP roll...

Personally I won't be taking these units (I don't really like their model either) Maybe I haven't seen their true power in actual combat and looking at the stats isn't the best way to really judge them. I would also like to see some insight from others on this topic, but I thought I would leave my opinion to Smile
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Hellstrom
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PostSubject: Re: Talos and/or Cronos   Wed Jun 14 2017, 15:21

They are the same toughness as a Raider, but with less wounds. I can't even see them being a bullet sink.
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dumpeal
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PostSubject: Re: Talos and/or Cronos   Wed Jun 14 2017, 15:30

With their ability to regive wounds, cronos survivality seems to increase exponentially when you stack several of them near. 1 Haemy and 2 cronos will make a great dark artisan. It's just a shame we can't deep strike them anymore.
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TheBaconPope
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PostSubject: Re: Talos and/or Cronos   Wed Jun 14 2017, 16:21

Oh the poor poor Talos..

Unfortunately, with the loss of T7, lower wound count, loss of AP2 equivalent melee, comparatively slow movement, inability to take a transport, and the nerfs to the Haywire Blaster, Heat Lance, and Splinter Cannon, I think the only battle the old Talos will be fighting is against dust on the shelf.

The jury is still out for the Cronos in my opinion though.

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Count Adhemar
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PostSubject: Re: Talos and/or Cronos   Wed Jun 14 2017, 16:26

Yeah, not entirely sure what GW were thinking when they got round to the Talos. He does have more attacks now and gets a 5++ and PfP but I don't think that really helps too much.

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PostSubject: Re: Talos and/or Cronos   Wed Jun 14 2017, 18:18

To be fair his 2 splinter cannons is better than his previous 1 twinlinked at 18"
Though not by much, and worse at over 18"

Ichor injector seems pretty meh, chain-flails seem pointless compared to Macro-scalpel

He gets back to T7 if within 6" of a Haemy.
Macro-scalpel does damage 2 which isn't terrible, but little ap mod.

Chronos doesn't have any punch, 3 attacks hitting on a 4+ with str 5 and only -1 ap means what a 40-ish% chance of regaining a single wound against a space marine squad for any single round of combat (4+ to hit, 3+ to wound, 4+ save ~ 16.5% chance of unsaved wound per attack 83.5% chance of no unsaved wound per attack ~ 58.2% chance of 0 un-saved wounds with all 3 (83.5 ^3) )? and they since it's only a 5+ (T6 or T7) for a space marine to wound the Tallos/Chronos it will be much more vulnerable to take wounds than before.

They both suck on paper,
Maybe the re-roll to wound rolls of 1 for all Drukhari 6" from the chronos is worth it?
Just realized I didn't account for the reroll to wound rolls of 1 in my math, oh well I doubt it makes much difference

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Chippen
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PostSubject: Re: Talos and/or Cronos   Wed Jun 14 2017, 21:13

A more expensive Distraction Carnifex than before. I could maybe see a Haemy, Cronos, and Talos to tie up some melee units for a couple turns, but that's a big investment.

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Archon_91
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PostSubject: Re: Talos and/or Cronos   Wed Jun 14 2017, 22:48

I found the Cronos to be rather survivable having played them in a unit of three with a haemy right behind them, an entire turn of bolter fire failed to kill one ... I suggest playing them and the talos in a few games before writing them off completely, they do get 8" movement so it's not like they are completely left in the dust by our army, and honestly the covens have always been about a slow impending doom moving towards the enemy that can't be stopped no matter how much fire power is put into it ( they obviously can't fully replicate this on the table cause then coven would be broken) but the ability to always have 2 saves against a single wound, baring mortal wounds but even then they still get fnp, helps that feeling along a bit, that's just my take on them however, other might not see it that way
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Millhouse4570
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PostSubject: Re: Talos and/or Cronos   Thu Jun 15 2017, 00:35

In my opinion the cronos seems pretty sweet, and it will defiantly have a place in my first few lists as i feel out the new edition. The buffs it provides seems pretty useful, not game changing but re rolling 1s to wound is nice. On top of that if it wounds something it can restore a wound to a friendly dark eldar unit. On its own not a massive buff but could be the differnce between keeping a valued unit up in the next turn or it getting killed. And it seems to me that it has a good chance of obtaining a chance at doing that. I could be mistaken but im fairly sure that it can take a spirit vortex and probe. So at 18 inces it gets an assault d6 s3 ap 2 attack, and at 8 inches the same that always hits, and i think you can use both. Not to mention its close combat attacks. Thats a lot of opportunity to cause one wound all dealing d3 damage on wound rolls of 6. Its perhaps not the most killy unit, but a good support unit for sure. They seem like they will pair well with all my coven units and im excited to give them a try.
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PostSubject: Re: Talos and/or Cronos   Thu Jun 15 2017, 19:22

@TheBaconPope wrote:
Oh the poor poor Talos..

Unfortunately, with the loss of T7, lower wound count, loss of AP2 equivalent melee, comparatively slow movement, inability to take a transport, and the nerfs to the Haywire Blaster, Heat Lance, and Splinter Cannon, I think the only battle the old Talos will be fighting is against dust on the shelf.

The jury is still out for the Cronos in my opinion though.

it has 7w's in 8th ed, more than 7th.


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PostSubject: Re: Talos and/or Cronos   Sun Jun 18 2017, 23:04

A wraithlord is cheaper points wise, has a higher S and T, has more and better weapon options, and has three more wounds.  It degrades, but I'm still thinking the WL is vastly better.

Edit: I didn't consider the Talos' having an inv save and PFP benefits, so that does change things a bit.

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amishprn86
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PostSubject: Re: Talos and/or Cronos   Sun Jun 18 2017, 23:17

Well without upgrades it is, but with Upgrades its the same or more,

The difference is that the Talos has PFP , 4/5 attacks, a Invul save and a FnP 6+ save.

Tho it is cost efficient if that is what your going for, i'd rather have my Talos tho.

Turn 3 you get Re-roll Charges, 2+ to hit with 5 attacks and a 3+/5++/6+++


I just wish the Talos had better gun options.

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PostSubject: Re: Talos and/or Cronos   Sun Jun 18 2017, 23:42

I like the talos.

I've played them in pairs, 2 Splinter cannons and 2 macro-scalpels each.
2x6 S6, -1AP, 2D attacks is strong. 8" is fast enough. PFP is excellent for them.

In both games they walked through a ton of bullets.
They're at full effectiveness even on 1 wound which is boss.
They earned their pts. And even tho 3 died over the 2 games they had already done work so i was very happy with them.

In 2 games i did not lose a single skimmer! Not even 1 down to half wounds. Cool
This is because the talos drew 90% of the fire. You have to respect that and the carnage they wrecked was soo satisfying.
I would use them again without hesitation.



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PostSubject: Re: Talos and/or Cronos   Mon Jun 19 2017, 07:08

I plan on using them now Smile

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PostSubject: Re: Talos and/or Cronos   Mon Jun 19 2017, 14:09

What do people think of using them with Stinger Pods instead of Splinter Cannons? You'll get at most the same number of shots up to 18", generally a few more up to 24" but don't have range beyond that, but with S5 you're wounding most infantry on 3's and can actually do a little more damage to vehicles. It also saves you 4pts, not much but can allow for an upgrade elsewhere.
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PostSubject: Re: Talos and/or Cronos   Mon Jun 19 2017, 15:57

I'm not sure Talos are that's bad too. They benefit a lot of the new PFP table, are faster than before and have more attack. The 2 wound can be strong tho, but yeah Ap -1 is stupid.
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PostSubject: Re: Talos and/or Cronos   Mon Jun 19 2017, 18:13

I've used a Talos/Haemy combo in a couple games now, and have found them to be quite useful for holding exposed objectives in the middle of the map. It's dual splinter cannons reliably put a wound or two down range and when it comes time to smash it survives combat like a champ. Without the Talos I don't think I could have the early game board control I've been enjoying.
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Hen Tai, the tentacle guy
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PostSubject: Re: Talos and/or Cronos   Mon Jun 19 2017, 18:36

In high point games, I want to try them out with a cronos and a haemy and keep them in the back as a deepstrike defence to protect my ravagers.

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PostSubject: Re: Talos and/or Cronos   Mon Jun 19 2017, 18:38

@Imateria wrote:
What do people think of using them with Stinger Pods instead of Splinter Cannons? You'll get at most the same number of shots up to 18", generally a few more up to 24" but don't have range beyond that, but with S5 you're wounding most infantry on 3's and can actually do a little more damage to vehicles. It also saves you 4pts, not much but can allow for an upgrade elsewhere.


I like the idea, I'm just nervous about how getting a low number of random shots might screw you over at a critical moment. But extra wounds on vehicles at range might be the way to go. Is there anything that's actually T10 in the game right now? Buildings/bunkers maybe?
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PostSubject: Re: Talos and/or Cronos   Mon Jun 19 2017, 18:40

@DeathByDisco wrote:
I've used a Talos/Haemy combo in a couple games now, and have found them to be quite useful for holding exposed objectives in the middle of the map. It's dual splinter cannons reliably put a wound or two down range and when it comes time to smash it survives combat like a champ. Without the Talos I don't think I could have the early game board control I've been enjoying.

How did you manage to contest objectives against a high number of model? Does the sheer number of wound is enough to negate the enemy's contest?
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PostSubject: Re: Talos and/or Cronos   Mon Jun 19 2017, 19:00

@dumpeal wrote:
@DeathByDisco wrote:
I've used a Talos/Haemy combo in a couple games now, and have found them to be quite useful for holding exposed objectives in the middle of the map. It's dual splinter cannons reliably put a wound or two down range and when it comes time to smash it survives combat like a champ. Without the Talos I don't think I could have the early game board control I've been enjoying.

How did you manage to contest objectives against a high number of model? Does the sheer number of wound is enough to negate the enemy's contest?

I meant more as an early game hold, it's hard to shoot them off of it. When my opponent got close I Moved the Talos forward to intercept and parked some Kabalites behind them on the point. The rest of my army is built out to be a quick reaction force, so it's easy to shuffle models where I need them.
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PostSubject: Re: Talos and/or Cronos   Mon Jun 19 2017, 21:16

Did anybody try the Haywire Blaster on the Talos yet? I am a bit repelled to pay 30pts for Splinter fire that excels most at 18" or less. I'd rather have my Splinter Weapons on something that has the speed to get into RF range more reliably.

It got a nice effective range of 24", is cheaper and the Mortal Wounds will greatly help against Necrons or vehicles with an Invul save.

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PostSubject: Re: Talos and/or Cronos   Mon Jun 19 2017, 23:12

I hate HWB in 8th, i will never use them again.

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PostSubject: Re: Talos and/or Cronos   Mon Jun 19 2017, 23:23

@The Strange Dark One wrote:
Did anybody try the Haywire Blaster on the Talos yet? I am a bit repelled to pay 30pts for Splinter fire that excels most at 18" or less. I'd rather have my Splinter Weapons on something that has the speed to get into RF range more reliably.

It got a nice effective range of 24", is cheaper and the Mortal Wounds will greatly help against Necrons or vehicles with an Invul save.

umm haywire is short range too, and you want to be in rfr with tales as you want to be in combat. I'm also thinking stinger pods for the 2d6 s5 shots. they could be nasty.
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