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Ioseliani
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PostSubject: How Many Reavers   Wed Jun 14 2017, 03:41

My collection is pretty large but I have never played with Reavers or Hellions.  I think Reavers look good from the 8th leaks but have no idea what is considered the usual amount to run. Some threads around say to run a few small squads to act as screens, other lists ive seen (mostly from 7th) run dozens of them.  Any advice? 0 could be an acceptable answer as well if my interpretation is completely off base Smile
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Faitherun
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PostSubject: Re: How Many Reavers   Wed Jun 14 2017, 04:03

I don't like squads larger than 6 as they get hard to hide then.

For me, I will probably take two squads of 6 in a 2k game and two squads of 3 in a 1k one.
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Ioseliani
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PostSubject: Re: How Many Reavers   Wed Jun 14 2017, 05:06

Yeah I was thinking 9 at first. Mainly for a big and a small squad and to split up the larger purchase into a more palatable structure. Is there ever a case for the big 12 units? Seems ridiculous.
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|Meavar
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PostSubject: Re: How Many Reavers   Wed Jun 14 2017, 07:51

Yes there are situations where the big unit of 12 can be great.
But that usually means you plan your battle a little around them since they cost a lot as well.
For normal play I think smaller units of 3 or 6 work better. But it is often determined by what function you want them to fulfill.

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Cerve
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PostSubject: Re: How Many Reavers   Wed Jun 14 2017, 08:33

I can't figure out why I have to pick Reavers this time Sad help me to find a motivation. Both Hellions and Scourge seems way better in their role to me.

Shooting? Just 1 gun x3 models.
Shooting poison? Both do it better.
CC? Hellions seems better at the same costs.
Resilience? Single wound seems better agains any multiple damage guns. And T5 falls against this thought.
Hit&Run? Both Hellions and Scourges do it better.

Reavers had Caltrops and Talons which seems pretty weak to me. Yes they have T5 with the right drugs but they are expensive, and any dmg2+ gun will shred them anyway.
Killing heroes? I can do it with anything in my list. Damn, even Blasterborn on a Venom.
If only they had hit&run as Hellions do...

I'm studying them but seems to me that they doesn't value over other units at this run.


Last edited by Cerve on Wed Jun 14 2017, 08:36; edited 2 times in total
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mynamelegend
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PostSubject: Re: How Many Reavers   Wed Jun 14 2017, 09:19

@Cerve wrote:
I can't figure out why I have to pick Reavers this time Sad help me to find a motivation. Both Hellions and Scourge seems way better in their role to me.
(...)
I'm studying them but seems to me that they doesn't value over other units at this run.

They may be useful for character assassination against unprepared enemies. With a 24-26'' advance they may be able to get into position to fire a heat lance at a character that's poorly hidden. It relies on the enemy acting poorly, though, so it's not great.
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closecraig
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PostSubject: Re: How Many Reavers   Wed Jun 14 2017, 09:26

@Cerve wrote:
I can't figure out why I have to pick Reavers this time Sad help me to find a motivation. Both Hellions and Scourge seems way better in their role to me.

Shooting? Just 1 gun x3 models.
Shooting poison? Both do it better.
CC? Hellions seems better at the same costs.
Resilience? Single wound seems better agains any multiple damage guns. And T5 falls against this thought.
Hit&Run? Both Hellions and Scourges do it better.

Reavers had Caltrops and Talons which seems pretty weak to me. Yes they have T5 with the right drugs but they are expensive, and any dmg2+ gun will shred them anyway.
Killing heroes? I can do it with anything in my list. Damn, even Blasterborn on a Venom.
If only they had hit&run as Hellions do...

I'm studying them but seems to me that they doesn't value over other units at this run.

The -1 ap of bladevanes is, in my opinion - Substantially better than 2 damage for the hellions.
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Cerve
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PostSubject: Re: How Many Reavers   Wed Jun 14 2017, 09:46

@closecraig wrote:
@Cerve wrote:
I can't figure out why I have to pick Reavers this time Sad help me to find a motivation. Both Hellions and Scourge seems way better in their role to me.

Shooting? Just 1 gun x3 models.
Shooting poison? Both do it better.
CC? Hellions seems better at the same costs.
Resilience? Single wound seems better agains any multiple damage guns. And T5 falls against this thought.
Hit&Run? Both Hellions and Scourges do it better.

Reavers had Caltrops and Talons which seems pretty weak to me. Yes they have T5 with the right drugs but they are expensive, and any dmg2+ gun will shred them anyway.
Killing heroes? I can do it with anything in my list. Damn, even Blasterborn on a Venom.
If only they had hit&run as Hellions do...

I'm studying them but seems to me that they doesn't value over other units at this run.

The -1 ap of bladevanes is, in my opinion - Substantially better than 2 damage for the hellions.

But an Hellion is overall better than a Reaver. And those 2 dmg helps against any multiple wounds (even multiengage some veichles).

And Reavers strikes at S5 2dmg, against S4 -1 1dmg. I prefer the first.
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closecraig
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PostSubject: Re: How Many Reavers   Wed Jun 14 2017, 09:55

@Cerve wrote:
@closecraig wrote:
@Cerve wrote:
I can't figure out why I have to pick Reavers this time Sad help me to find a motivation. Both Hellions and Scourge seems way better in their role to me.

Shooting? Just 1 gun x3 models.
Shooting poison? Both do it better.
CC? Hellions seems better at the same costs.
Resilience? Single wound seems better agains any multiple damage guns. And T5 falls against this thought.
Hit&Run? Both Hellions and Scourges do it better.

Reavers had Caltrops and Talons which seems pretty weak to me. Yes they have T5 with the right drugs but they are expensive, and any dmg2+ gun will shred them anyway.
Killing heroes? I can do it with anything in my list. Damn, even Blasterborn on a Venom.
If only they had hit&run as Hellions do...

I'm studying them but seems to me that they doesn't value over other units at this run.

The -1 ap of bladevanes is, in my opinion - Substantially better than 2 damage for the hellions.

But an Hellion is overall better than a Reaver. And those 2 dmg helps against any multiple wounds (even multiengage some veichles).

And Reavers strikes at S5 2dmg, against S4 -1 1dmg. I prefer the first.

I've found that ap is the king in this game. Yes the extra wound helps but you still need to actually wound.
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Painjunky
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PostSubject: Re: How Many Reavers   Wed Jun 14 2017, 10:40

@Cerve wrote:
I can't figure out why I have to pick Reavers this time Sad help me to find a motivation. Both Hellions and Scourge seems way better in their role to me.

Shooting? Just 1 gun x3 models.
Shooting poison? Both do it better.
CC? Hellions seems better at the same costs.
Resilience? Single wound seems better agains any multiple damage guns. And T5 falls against this thought.
Hit&Run? Both Hellions and Scourges do it better.

Reavers had Caltrops and Talons which seems pretty weak to me. Yes they have T5 with the right drugs but they are expensive, and any dmg2+ gun will shred them anyway.
Killing heroes? I can do it with anything in my list. Damn, even Blasterborn on a Venom.
If only they had hit&run as Hellions do...

I'm studying them but seems to me that they doesn't value over other units at this run.

That's funny. I can't figure out why i'd ever use hellions. Wink

They are much slower than reavers, have no ranged special weapon, are much squishier, die sooo easy to any stray small arms fire the opponent has left over and a min size unit is still not cheap.
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Ioseliani
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PostSubject: Re: How Many Reavers   Wed Jun 14 2017, 10:48

ill be honest I prefer the reaver looks and I am not a major competitive player. The reason is I prefer the movement, special weapons choices, and the -AP. I want to get hellions later though.
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Cerve
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PostSubject: Re: How Many Reavers   Wed Jun 14 2017, 11:01

@Painjunky wrote:
@Cerve wrote:
I can't figure out why I have to pick Reavers this time Sad help me to find a motivation. Both Hellions and Scourge seems way better in their role to me.

Shooting? Just 1 gun x3 models.
Shooting poison? Both do it better.
CC? Hellions seems better at the same costs.
Resilience? Single wound seems better agains any multiple damage guns. And T5 falls against this thought.
Hit&Run? Both Hellions and Scourges do it better.

Reavers had Caltrops and Talons which seems pretty weak to me. Yes they have T5 with the right drugs but they are expensive, and any dmg2+ gun will shred them anyway.
Killing heroes? I can do it with anything in my list. Damn, even Blasterborn on a Venom.
If only they had hit&run as Hellions do...

I'm studying them but seems to me that they doesn't value over other units at this run.

That's funny. I can't figure out why i'd ever use hellions. Wink

They are much slower than reavers, have no ranged special weapon, are much squishier, die sooo easy to any stray small arms fire the opponent has left over and a min size unit is still not cheap.


Because they are not so fragile as you will thought, and for the cost of the Reavers I will play 2 of them.
They don't really need about special weapons. I have scourges and Troops for them. Anyway, Reavers just have 1x3, I will prefer DS Scourges for that role. Don't really need about 1 special weapon.
Scourges are fast enough for what I need them.
And they still cheap between them and Reavers.


The thing is that Reavers stay between Scourges and Hellions. But I don't like it, I prefer to specialyze my units. So if I need special weapons I will run Scourges, if I need CC I will run Hellions. Double of them
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Faitherun
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PostSubject: Re: How Many Reavers   Wed Jun 14 2017, 13:25

For me, theory hammer, I want reavers for character assassination. A small squad of 3 can more easily get in between blobs and around guys, and with their incredible movement they can set up for a turn 2/3 assassination.

I think they are too expensive as an early shock unit to charge in - I think hellions are better for that. Reavers are more a scalpel
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Cerve
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PostSubject: Re: How Many Reavers   Wed Jun 14 2017, 13:27

@Faitherun wrote:
For me, theory hammer, I want reavers for character assassination. A small squad of 3 can more easily get in between blobs and around guys, and with their incredible movement they can set up for a turn 2/3 assassination.

I think they are too expensive as an early shock unit to charge in - I think hellions are better for that. Reavers are more a scalpel

You can do the same even better with a Venom full of Blasterborn.

Or just with Scurges.


Anyway that will be possibile, maybe, in the late game. And I'm not even sure about that, thanks to the bodyspam of the 8th :-/
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Faitherun
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PostSubject: Re: How Many Reavers   Wed Jun 14 2017, 13:29

A venom takes a larger foot print and is not as fast. And scourges I'd rather focus on other things

All theory hammer tho
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Cerve
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PostSubject: Re: How Many Reavers   Wed Jun 14 2017, 13:57

@Faitherun wrote:
A venom takes a larger foot print and is not as fast. And scourges I'd rather focus on other things

All theory hammer tho

Oh you were thinking about 3 Reavers? Mmm not sure if they will be able to killing an hero.

I will try them anyway, still have 12 of these guys Smile
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Faitherun
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PostSubject: Re: How Many Reavers   Wed Jun 14 2017, 14:05

3 or 6. 6 is still more maneuverable and faster than a venom. I would think cheaper too.

Even if they cant kill it, I see two squads of 3 reavers can be good to charge the character from one direction and the squad from another to pull them out if range of each other
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Cerve
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PostSubject: Re: How Many Reavers   Wed Jun 14 2017, 14:34

@Faitherun wrote:
3 or 6. 6 is still more maneuverable and faster than a venom. I would think cheaper too.

Even if they cant kill it, I see two squads of 3 reavers can be good to charge the character from one direction and the squad from another to pull them out if range of each other

If this will be an elite game, yes I can agree. But I'm afraid about the large amount of w1 bodies we will fight against. The 8th seems going in that direction, so will be extremely difficult to find a catch for Reavers.
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Dark Elf Dave
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PostSubject: Re: How Many Reavers   Thu Jun 15 2017, 12:34

I am determined to have 6 Reavers in my list but they are so expensive. A Reaver with a Heat Lance is 55 points!

This squad is coming out as the most expensive unit in the army every time...I think they are overpriced. I think its harsh on the squad to have to be 6 strong to carry two special weapons.
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Hen Tai, the tentacle guy
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PostSubject: Re: How Many Reavers   Thu Jun 15 2017, 13:28

In my experience the heatlance is not that reliable. If the character you are hunting have something hardhitting nearby and you miss your shots at meltarange, those reavers are doomed

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Dark Elf Dave
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PostSubject: Re: How Many Reavers   Thu Jun 15 2017, 14:03

I think if I missed at that range and the character was alive I would simply charge and take my chances in combat.

Also I think the points cost of the weapons makes it obvious that the Heat Lance is in the top 3 ranged weapons available for non vehicles...its the fact it is assault and D6 damage. Uts one of those weapons that will rarely give you the result you want but when it does...awesome!
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Hen Tai, the tentacle guy
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PostSubject: Re: How Many Reavers   Thu Jun 15 2017, 17:23

The problem I've been facing is that my opponents usually keep their characters with elite cc units, so when I charge, they like it, as they get their cc elites where they want them without the overwatch. You should at least thin the herd before charging them and don't aim for a first turn strike.

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Painjunky
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PostSubject: Re: How Many Reavers   Thu Jun 15 2017, 21:27

@Dark Elf Dave wrote:
I am determined to have 6 Reavers in my list but they are so expensive.  A Reaver with a Heat Lance is 55 points!

This squad is coming out as the most expensive unit in the army every time...I think they are overpriced.  I think its harsh on the squad to have to be 6 strong to carry two special weapons.

Why not 2 x 3 if you have the FA slots?

3 reavers - blaster, ago and gravtalon = 113pts. Not too expensive.

Ill be running 3x3 at 2000pts. Fast, annoying, tactical. Cool
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colinsherlow
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PostSubject: Re: How Many Reavers   Fri Jun 16 2017, 15:16

I have been running a unit of 9 reavers with combat drugs to make T5, blasters and grav talons and ano agoniser. The unit have been amazing. I can see the +1 attack being good as well or the +2 move. Making them move 18". Good for 1st Turn assault if you really want it.

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Painjunky
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PostSubject: Re: How Many Reavers   Sun Jun 18 2017, 00:07

2 games last night vs BA and crons. 2000pts

I took 3x3 reavers with blasters, Ago, grav claw.

They were excellent. cheers

They are just handy little units that can get where you want them and do damage with shooting and cc. They are so easy to hide and are tough to kill.
Great bully units and kings of obj grabbing, linebreaker etc.

I deploy them all first and with my mandrakes that's 4 drops without giving anything away as they can move to the other side of the table if needed in a couple of turns. Very Happy

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