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 Re:[2000] - Pure Dark Eldar/Drukhari - Competitive 8th

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BlastaRasta
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PostSubject: Re:[2000] - Pure Dark Eldar/Drukhari - Competitive 8th   Tue Jun 13 2017, 09:31

Hi all,

I've decided to take pure DE to a tournament at the start of July, the format will be a spin on the old ETC, so each mission is a mix of eternal war and maelstrom.

It'll need to be an all comers list that can dominate the board.

Batalion Detachment

HQ

Arcon - Blaster - Agoniser - 73

Archon - Blaster - Agonsier - 73

Venom - Double splinter cannon - 95

Troops

Kabalite Warriors (5) - blaster - Venom w/ double SC - 145

Kabalite Warriors (5) - blaster - Venom w/ double SC - 145

Kabalite Warriors (5) - blaster - Venom w/ double SC - 145

Elite

5 Trueborn - 3 blaster - Venom w/ double SC - 195

5 Trueborn - 3 blaster - Venom w/ double SC - 195

Heavy Support

Ravager - Triple DL - 155

Ravager - Triple DL - 155

Ravager - Triple DL - 155

Air Wing Detachment

Razorwing - Double DL - 155

Razorwing - Double DL - 155

Razorwing - Double DL - 155

7 Command points total

List total 1996

Edit: min/ maxed a little more.

Still wonder as to whether to run this as Ynnari, efficiency wise it would be better but ill be up against all other ynnari list for best general (plus I kinda fancy seeing what pure DE can do without sfd)


EDIT: So having played some more with the list and finding weaknesses, turn one assaults are a real thing. my friend runs a double helldrake and daemon prince list. Venoms pop really easily without their -1 to hit and 5++ so the following is the new list. whilst this is an example of one particular list I believe many armies have the same capabilities to get in really fast and believe any "strong list" will need to include screens.

Battalion Detachment

HQ

Archon - blast pistol - Agoniser - 68

Archon - blast pistol - Agoniser - 68

Venom - W/ Double SC - 95

Troops

Kabalitex5 - blast pistol - PGL - Blaster - Venom W/ Double SC - 162

Kabalitex5 - blast pistol - PGL - Blaster - Venom W/ Double SC - 162

Kabalitex5 - blast pistol - PGL - Blaster - Venom W/ Double SC - 162

Elite

Beast master - 9 Razorwing flock - 119

Beast master - 9 Razorwing flock - 119

Trueborn - 2 Dark lances - Raider w/ Dark lance - 210

Heavy Support

Ravager - 3 DL - 155

Ravager - 3 DL - 155

Ravager - 3 DL - 155

Airwing Detachment


Razorwing - Double DL - 155

Razorwing - Double DL - 155

Razorwing - Double DL - 155

2000 points

7 CP


Last edited by BlastaRasta on Tue Jun 20 2017, 19:47; edited 2 times in total
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SeldomWrong
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PostSubject: Re: Re:[2000] - Pure Dark Eldar/Drukhari - Competitive 8th   Thu Jun 15 2017, 11:15

Venoms over Raiders?

No PGL on Sybarites or Archons?

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closecraig
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PostSubject: Re: Re:[2000] - Pure Dark Eldar/Drukhari - Competitive 8th   Thu Jun 15 2017, 11:34

I'd recommend making at least 1 of those ravagers as a dissie ravager. Much better MEQ / TEQ killing potential.
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BlastaRasta
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PostSubject: Re: Re:[2000] - Pure Dark Eldar/Drukhari - Competitive 8th   Thu Jun 15 2017, 16:46

SeldomWrong wrote:
Venoms over Raiders?

No PGL on Sybarites or Archons?


Yes, for the anit-infantry firepower,

and no points for them, would you suggesting dropping blasters for them? or one of the blasterborn?
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BlastaRasta
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PostSubject: Re: Re:[2000] - Pure Dark Eldar/Drukhari - Competitive 8th   Thu Jun 15 2017, 16:47

closecraig wrote:
I'd recommend making at least 1 of those ravagers as a dissie ravager. Much better MEQ / TEQ killing potential.

A friend suggested this too, ive had mixed luck with the DL, it seems most competitive lists ive played thus far have Knights in them (so T8 vehicles) which is kinda rough to wound.

what would you drop for the extra 10 points per dissie
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Skulnbonz
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PostSubject: Re: Re:[2000] - Pure Dark Eldar/Drukhari - Competitive 8th   Thu Jun 15 2017, 17:38

If you could choose between these two units, which would you pick?

5 wounds
toughness 3
5+ save vs HTH and shooting (can be modified)
Movement = 7
attacks = 6
Strength = 3
1 shot at 18" str 8, ap-4, d3 wounds and 4 rapid fire 24" poison shots (up to 8 total)
Every wound taken loses a shot, and an attack (or two). Also vulnerable to LD tests.
Cost= 50 points.

Or

6 Wounds
Toughness 5
5+ invul save to shooting (cant be modified)
Movement = 16
Attacks = 2 (-1 ap)
str = 5
6 rapid fire shots at 36" range (up to 12)
Every wound taken does not effect this unit in any way until the unit is dead. This unit ignores terrain and enemy models when moving, and is able to assault models with the "airborne" rule. This unit is also able to leave combat and still shoot at full effect.
cost= 95 points

In a fight between these two units, one of them will NEVER be in range of the other, making the result a foregone conclusion.
So why add the weaker of the two units?

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|Meavar
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PostSubject: Re: Re:[2000] - Pure Dark Eldar/Drukhari - Competitive 8th   Thu Jun 15 2017, 18:29

Because it costs half of the points, and they have a different function?
So let's compare it to double the guardsmen units?

The range matters only 1 or 2 turns, then the brimstone horror horde is to close to you and you have your back against the wall since they fill the entire table. And then effectively you traded 2 s8 d3wound-3AP shots and 2 rapid fire poison shots for some more "survivability" (which is purely depending on what your opponent brings, does he like to bring anti tank weapons/mortal wound shenanigans, the venom is dead faster then the 10 guard, does he like to bring anti horde weapons, the warriors die faster. Remember you have nearly twice the amount of wounds as a warrior and he needs to hit every model, not just 1 and then roll a 6 on his damage die.
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Skulnbonz
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PostSubject: Re: Re:[2000] - Pure Dark Eldar/Drukhari - Competitive 8th   Thu Jun 15 2017, 18:34

And you get wounded on 3+ compared to 5+, and if you lose 7 models, the other three are probably dead as well with no save whatsoever.

Either way, I was just giving insight that our transports are better than what they carry. Disagree all you wish, time will tell who is right.


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SeldomWrong
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PostSubject: Re: Re:[2000] - Pure Dark Eldar/Drukhari - Competitive 8th   Thu Jun 15 2017, 20:10

Dropping one blaster gets you 5 PGL's which seems to be pretty worth.
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Simple B
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PostSubject: Re: Re:[2000] - Pure Dark Eldar/Drukhari - Competitive 8th   Thu Jun 15 2017, 23:34

Have you considered Scourges with 4 blasters instead of the Trueborn? It comes out to 130 for a 5 man w/ 4 blasters, and they are great for attacking Havocs and Devatators in cover, which I don't know about anyone else, but this is a major problem in my area already with 8th.

Otherwise, I came up with nearly the exact same thing!
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PostSubject: Re: Re:[2000] - Pure Dark Eldar/Drukhari - Competitive 8th   Fri Jun 16 2017, 00:34

So I played a game tonight and I took the blasterborn out and just took 5 kab squads, with Venom, blaster, blast pistol, agoniser and PGL and I actually prefare it to the bare bones version..

the opponent had target priority issues because before the two blasterborn venoms were the "easy" option. I also ran it as DE not Ynnari. I was watching for moments that would have been nice soul bursts and to be honest there was only one or two time I thought yeah that might have been really good.

charging venoms into things like Devo's is really nice. Tonight I put them into castalan robots (the dakka variant) (and turn 1 charge) and tied them up for 3 turns.

This list has a lot of -1 to hit.. it does serious work..

with the changes mentioned above, I come in at 1982 points.

that's enough to drop one PGL and take two dissies on one of the ravagers?

or leave it and just upgrade one and maybe some shock prows around the place.

Tomorrows game I will try as Ynnari
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SeldomWrong
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PostSubject: Re: Re:[2000] - Pure Dark Eldar/Drukhari - Competitive 8th   Sat Jun 17 2017, 10:52

How useful were the Agonisers? Did you melee much?
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PostSubject: Re: Re:[2000] - Pure Dark Eldar/Drukhari - Competitive 8th   Sat Jun 17 2017, 14:56

7 Command points? A battalion gives you only 3 CP +1CP for he Air Support.

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BlastaRasta
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PostSubject: Re: Re:[2000] - Pure Dark Eldar/Drukhari - Competitive 8th   Sat Jun 17 2017, 16:26

CptMetal wrote:
7 Command points? A battalion gives you only 3 CP +1CP for he Air Support.

Plus 3 for being battle forged.. (everyone starts with 3 if you just build within a detachment)

Agonisers were ok, wounding daemon princesses on 4+ is ok.. only doing 1 damage is kinda rough..
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PostSubject: Re: Re:[2000] - Pure Dark Eldar/Drukhari - Competitive 8th   Mon Jun 19 2017, 18:55

If you drop the second splinter cannon on all the venoms, you could get a bare bones venom for your second archon.  Or you could give splinter cannons to the trueborn.

Just remember that the Splinter Cannon upgrade for the venom only gives you one or two extra shots over the stock version.

Other than that, our lists are very similar. Archons, warriors, and ravagers are the same (I did take one dissie each though). But I have two squads of bare bones scourges for deepstrike, two razorwings and a bomber, and one trueborn squad with two cannons. 6 venoms, 3 ravagers, 3 planes. No one is on foot until the scourges come in.
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PostSubject: Re: Re:[2000] - Pure Dark Eldar/Drukhari - Competitive 8th   Mon Jun 19 2017, 23:24

Dirtydeeds wrote:
If you drop the second splinter cannon on all the venoms, you could get a bare bones venom for your second archon.  Or you could give splinter cannons to the trueborn.

Just remember that the Splinter Cannon upgrade for the venom only gives you one or two extra shots over the stock version.

Other than that, our lists are very similar.  Archons, warriors, and ravagers are the same (I did take one dissie each though).  But I have two squads of bare bones scourges for deepstrike, two razorwings and a bomber, and one trueborn squad with two cannons.  6 venoms, 3 ravagers, 3 planes.  No one is on foot until the scourges come in.

yeah, I'm also thinking that venoms are almost as good without double sc.
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PostSubject: Re: Re:[2000] - Pure Dark Eldar/Drukhari - Competitive 8th   Tue Jun 20 2017, 15:11

wormfromhell wrote:
Dirtydeeds wrote:
If you drop the second splinter cannon on all the venoms, you could get a bare bones venom for your second archon.  Or you could give splinter cannons to the trueborn.

Just remember that the Splinter Cannon upgrade for the venom only gives you one or two extra shots over the stock version.

Other than that, our lists are very similar.  Archons, warriors, and ravagers are the same (I did take one dissie each though).  But I have two squads of bare bones scourges for deepstrike, two razorwings and a bomber, and one trueborn squad with two cannons.  6 venoms, 3 ravagers, 3 planes.  No one is on foot until the scourges come in.

yeah, I'm also thinking that venoms are almost as good without double sc.

You just get more bang for your buck putting those points somewhere else.
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PostSubject: Re: Re:[2000] - Pure Dark Eldar/Drukhari - Competitive 8th   Wed Jun 21 2017, 21:49

I would definitely drop SC from all those Venoms and find points for other tings. The 15 point SC is an luxury upgrade at best. I'd love to see more Trueborn with Blasters if you're going to use pure DE.

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