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 Raider vs Venom survivablilty

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Hellstrom
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PostSubject: Raider vs Venom survivablilty   Mon Jun 12 2017, 23:05

Just for interest and  assuming no cover:


A Starweaver will die to:

72 Bolter shots
48 Heavy Bolter shots
36 Plasma shots
10 Lascannon shots


A Venom will die to:

72 Bolter shots
36 Heavy Bolter shots
27 Plasma shots
8 Lascannon shots


A Raider will die to:

90 Bolter shots
45 Heavy Bolter shots
34 Plasma shots
10 Lascannon shots


A Ravager will die to:

90 Bolter shots
68 Heavy Bolter shots
34 Plasma shots
10 Lascannon shots


A Razorwing will die to:

120 Bolter shots
90 Heavy Bolter shots
45 Plasma shots
13 Lascannon shots


Last edited by Hellstrom on Tue Jun 13 2017, 12:54; edited 7 times in total
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HERO
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PostSubject: Re: Raider vs Venom survivablilty   Mon Jun 12 2017, 23:32

More info:
Venom with 2x SC = 95, or 80 with a single
Raider with Dark Lance = 115, or 125 with Dissie
Starweaver with 2x SC is 99

What about the Starweaver in terms of durability?

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Hellstrom
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PostSubject: Re: Raider vs Venom survivablilty   Tue Jun 13 2017, 00:06

Updated with Starweaver
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Hellstrom
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PostSubject: Re: Raider vs Venom survivablilty   Tue Jun 13 2017, 00:08

The Starweaver can hold 6 models too. Why did they poo all over the Venom so hard? Could it be because they have sold loads of them and they don't need to sell any more? Cynical much.
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beradical
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PostSubject: Re: Raider vs Venom survivablilty   Tue Jun 13 2017, 00:11

Starweaver looks pretty tasty with these calculations. I love Venoms, though!

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PostSubject: Re: Raider vs Venom survivablilty   Tue Jun 13 2017, 01:06

I simply own to many venoms not to use them now lol
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PostSubject: Re: Raider vs Venom survivablilty   Tue Jun 13 2017, 02:51

Won't the Venom take 72 Bolter shots? It still gets the 4+ against small arms fire.
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PostSubject: Re: Raider vs Venom survivablilty   Tue Jun 13 2017, 12:13

crap. I have no idea where I got the idea that a Venom only had a 5+ save. That's why I've struggled for the last 5 games then. Lol.
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PostSubject: Re: Raider vs Venom survivablilty   Tue Jun 13 2017, 12:17

:-)
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Hellstrom
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PostSubject: Re: Raider vs Venom survivablilty   Tue Jun 13 2017, 12:48

Updated with Razorwing and Ravager
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Subsanity
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PostSubject: Re: Raider vs Venom survivablilty   Tue Jun 13 2017, 13:21

I thank I will stick with one raider with lance born, archon and ssylths. 5 venoms and 2 razorwings. Thanks for the math hammer.
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|Meavar
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PostSubject: Re: Raider vs Venom survivablilty   Tue Jun 13 2017, 14:21

Also just for fun:
Try against ork dakka:
Venom and starweaver need 216 shoota shots
Raider needs just 180 shoota shots.
Versus their anti tank weapons (rocket launcha's) it evens out again (27 for the dark eldar and 36 for the starweaver)
Mainly because the venom and starweaver need just 2 failed saves and the raider 4 since they deal 3 damage each. And the 4++ helps the starweaver a lot Sad

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PostSubject: Re: Raider vs Venom survivablilty   Tue Jun 13 2017, 15:01

Don't forget about the usefulness of the various transports. The Venom is the fastest transport, and that speed (and BS) will never degrade with wounds taken. If you need a clutch drop of Incubi, the Venom will be able to limp into position even with 1 wound left
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PostSubject: Re: Raider vs Venom survivablilty   Tue Jun 13 2017, 23:38

@fisheyes wrote:
Don't forget about the usefulness of the various transports. The Venom is the fastest transport, and that speed (and BS) will never degrade with wounds taken. If you need a clutch drop of Incubi, the Venom will be able to limp into position even with 1 wound left

And they got -1 to hit, which means that most of the veichles will shoot them with a -2 to hit.
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PostSubject: Re: Raider vs Venom survivablilty   Tue Jun 13 2017, 23:47

Cool, thanks

@|Meavar wrote:
Also just for fun:
Try against ork dakka:
Venom and starweaver need 216 shoota shots
Raider needs just 180 shoota shots.
Versus their anti tank weapons (rocket launcha's) it evens out again (27 for the dark eldar and 36 for the starweaver)
Mainly because the venom and starweaver need just 2 failed saves and the raider 4 since they deal 3 damage each. And the 4++ helps the starweaver a lot Sad


Yep the Starweaver is 16.7% better vs -2ap+ Razz sunny lol!

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PostSubject: Re: Raider vs Venom survivablilty   Wed Jun 14 2017, 00:23

My girl plays Harles perhaps Ill just borrow her transports lol
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PostSubject: Re: Raider vs Venom survivablilty   Thu Jun 15 2017, 13:49

So not to necro but considering the points and survivability is there any reason not to take a razorwing over a ravager?

The same cost.
1 less lance for missiles.
Can't charge but has hard to hit.
Faster

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Dark Elf Dave
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PostSubject: Re: Raider vs Venom survivablilty   Thu Jun 15 2017, 14:01

Because I will have a few Raiders in my army I like the idea of having a Razorwing over a Ravager just for the variety.
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PostSubject: Re: Raider vs Venom survivablilty   Thu Jun 15 2017, 14:35

Also worth noting. If you bring 3 flyers you get a CP

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PostSubject: Re: Raider vs Venom survivablilty   Thu Jun 15 2017, 15:18

Nice. Maybe I'll need a void raven for my flyer wing.

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PostSubject: Re: Raider vs Venom survivablilty   Thu Jun 15 2017, 16:47

@The Red King wrote:
So not to necro but considering the points and survivability is there any reason not to take a razorwing over a ravager?

The same cost.
1 less lance for missiles.
Can't charge but has hard to hit.
Faster

It's numerically harder to hit, but as you have to fly around the board, you are going to be in line of sight of everything most of the time. You can at least hide a Ravager.
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PostSubject: Re: Raider vs Venom survivablilty   Thu Jun 15 2017, 17:46

Voidraven next Smile  It's basically the same thing as the Razorwing just has 2 more wounds.

What about Wave Serpents? Let's see how our CW cousins compare.

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PostSubject: Re: Raider vs Venom survivablilty   Thu Jun 15 2017, 19:17

3 Fliers are very hard to play with now, if you cant land you die, if you fly off you die.

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PostSubject: Re: Raider vs Venom survivablilty   Thu Jun 15 2017, 19:47

@amishprn86 wrote:
3 Fliers are very hard to play with now, if you cant land you die, if you fly off you die.


You move 60", and shoot at 360'. I think that is way easier to fly them than before. I use 2 Razorwing actually, but just because I don't have Voidravens. Seems pretty good to me Smile
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PostSubject: Re: Raider vs Venom survivablilty   Thu Jun 15 2017, 20:00

I know this, but Fliers vs Ravagers for movement/playing are completely different.

Fliers have to move 20" no matter what, knowing this you opponent and predict right where you can go, using that info to make you out position yourself.

Ravagers they cant do that and many times will even waste a DS to get to one.

I like the fliers I play with them, but just saying becareful of 3 fliers your locked to a more off movement and predictability.
(Yes i know you can predict all movements, but 90 degree turn with minimum movement is much easier than a 360 degree no minimum one lol)

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