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 The advantages of Dark Eldar vehicles

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Dark Elf Dave
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PostSubject: Re: The advantages of Dark Eldar vehicles    Fri Jun 16 2017, 10:18

No I don't think you can have Dark Eldar infantry on the Starweaver but that does nothing to balance it out...I presume they made it this way because they already knew it was loads better than the venom and they didnt want to pass on the helping hand they have given the Harlies.

At the end of the day it is a Harly vehicle for a Harly army...not being ableto carry troops from another army list shouldn't make it cheaper in points.

The Starweaver is a better vehicle than the Venom in almost every way...

Better WS
Better Att
Better LD
Better Save
Guaranteed 6" advance
Weapon is arguably better...less shots but more effective
And where it is hands down more useful is it can transport 6 models compared to 5

All that for 4 additional points
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HERO
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PostSubject: Re: The advantages of Dark Eldar vehicles    Fri Jun 16 2017, 18:08

Yeah, pretty much. It's the first option I looked at for my transports just to find out they transport <Masque> units only. If that ever changes.. ho ho ho, clown cars here I come!
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drynwyn
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PostSubject: Re: The advantages of Dark Eldar vehicles    Fri Jun 16 2017, 18:18

Troupes are REALLY expensive, though. When you compare the cost/benefit of a Venom filled with Incubi to a Starweaver loaded with Harlequins, you get two units that seem fairly balanced with regards to one another, relative to their points cost (The Starweaver squad is about 1.5x the cost of of the Incubus venom.)
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Dirtydeeds
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PostSubject: Re: The advantages of Dark Eldar vehicles    Mon Jun 19 2017, 01:59

@drynwyn wrote:
I keep seeing people saying that the Starweaver is better, and that seems true in a comparison of just those two models, but as far as I can tell the Starweaver can only carry <Masque> Infantry models (IE, Harlequins). Is there some way to get Dark Eldar models into a Starweaver?

If you take the Ynnari route, you can put Drukhari models in Starweavers.
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Izaeus
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PostSubject: Re: The advantages of Dark Eldar vehicles    Mon Jun 19 2017, 02:04

In 7th edition you could do that, but they made sure each faction trqnsports could only take that faction's units in the transports rules.
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HERO
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PostSubject: Re: The advantages of Dark Eldar vehicles    Mon Jun 19 2017, 03:04

@Dirtydeeds wrote:
@drynwyn wrote:
I keep seeing people saying that the Starweaver is better, and that seems true in a comparison of just those two models, but as far as I can tell the Starweaver can only carry <Masque> Infantry models (IE, Harlequins). Is there some way to get Dark Eldar models into a Starweaver?

If you take the Ynnari route, you can put Drukhari models in Starweavers.

No you can't.
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Cerve
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PostSubject: Re: The advantages of Dark Eldar vehicles    Mon Jun 19 2017, 12:08

@HERO wrote:
@Dirtydeeds wrote:
@drynwyn wrote:
I keep seeing people saying that the Starweaver is better, and that seems true in a comparison of just those two models, but as far as I can tell the Starweaver can only carry <Masque> Infantry models (IE, Harlequins). Is there some way to get Dark Eldar models into a Starweaver?

If you take the Ynnari route, you can put Drukhari models in Starweavers.

No you can't.

Yes you can, is a special rule of the Ynnari army
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Cerve
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PostSubject: Re: The advantages of Dark Eldar vehicles    Mon Jun 19 2017, 12:09

@Cerve wrote:
@HERO wrote:
@Dirtydeeds wrote:
@drynwyn wrote:
I keep seeing people saying that the Starweaver is better, and that seems true in a comparison of just those two models, but as far as I can tell the Starweaver can only carry <Masque> Infantry models (IE, Harlequins). Is there some way to get Dark Eldar models into a Starweaver?

If you take the Ynnari route, you can put Drukhari models in Starweavers.

No you can't.

Yes you can, it's a special rule of the Ynnari army
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Ikol
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PostSubject: Re: The advantages of Dark Eldar vehicles    Mon Jun 19 2017, 12:11

Uh, no.

It's a special rule of Yvraine and the Visarch, not the general infantry.

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Shride
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PostSubject: Re: The advantages of Dark Eldar vehicles    Mon Jun 19 2017, 18:50

Another pro for our vehicles comes in the form of character support. You can give Raiders and Venoms the <KABAL>, <WYCH CULT>, or <HAEMONCULUS COVEN> keyword (sorry, Ravagers, you can only be <KABAL>). These keywords don't prohibit units with the other two keyboards from embarking. And Archon/Succubus/Haemonculus auras target their respectivie units, no caveat for Infantry like some armies have. So, WC Transports can benefit for the re-roll 1's in fight phase from Succubi, but probably even scarier, HC transports get +1 Toughness nearby any Haemonculi. T5 to T6 is a nice bump.
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Dirtydeeds
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PostSubject: Re: The advantages of Dark Eldar vehicles    Mon Jun 19 2017, 19:26

@Ikol wrote:
Uh, no.

It's a special rule of Yvraine and the Visarch, not the general infantry.

I stand corrected. I reread the rule and noticed that only the Visarch and Yvraine have the rule that allows them to embark in other transports.
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Cerve
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PostSubject: Re: The advantages of Dark Eldar vehicles    Tue Jun 20 2017, 01:43

@Dirtydeeds wrote:
@Ikol wrote:
Uh, no.

It's a special rule of Yvraine and the Visarch, not the general infantry.

I stand corrected.  I reread the rule and noticed that only the Visarch and Yvraine have the rule that allows them to embark in other transports.

Oh you're right! Wow...so bad Sad


Anyway another great advantage of our veichles is that now they can carry Fly Infantry!

I tried Hellions on Raiders and they are a beasts. Simply one of the best unit in the Codex if not the best one.
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drdoom222222
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PostSubject: Re: The advantages of Dark Eldar vehicles    Tue Jun 20 2017, 10:10

do fly infantry get to shoot when the raider they are traveling in falls back?
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Azdrubael
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PostSubject: Re: The advantages of Dark Eldar vehicles    Tue Jun 20 2017, 11:05

No, only raider gets to shoot.

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Skulnbonz
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PostSubject: Re: The advantages of Dark Eldar vehicles    Tue Jun 20 2017, 15:09

Fly rule says you can... interesting...

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Count Adhemar
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PostSubject: Re: The advantages of Dark Eldar vehicles    Tue Jun 20 2017, 15:20

The open-topped rule specifically says "Note that the passengers cannot shoot if this model Falls Back even though the Raider itself can"

I don't think the FLY keyword overrides that although I've not yet seen anything in the rules that says one way or the other.

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|Meavar
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PostSubject: Re: The advantages of Dark Eldar vehicles    Tue Jun 20 2017, 15:32

But disembark, shoot and charge in with those hellions Very Happy
Those hellions are squishy as hell but they pack a nice punch, they stripped some wounds of a carnifex, a hive tyrant and killed a bunch of genestealers in my last game.

And the fly exception is mentioned in the fall back. So I would go with the they cannot shoot after their transport fell back and they stayed inside team.
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Cerve
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PostSubject: Re: The advantages of Dark Eldar vehicles    Tue Jun 20 2017, 15:59

They cannot shoot if the Raider falls back because is the it, and not the Hellions itself that is doing that. So the Raider rule still block them to shoot.

But as this edition is an infantry spam edition, Hellions gives a lot of punch over cheap spam infantry models. Hellions and Beastmaster units are going to be the kings of the Codex in my opinion.

And if you find a veichle spam? They still have S5 2 dmg2, they works pretty well as antitank too.

And it is pretty easy to double your drugs. In my last game against Orks I played 2xSuccubus (Lelith actually, but I don't like her she is so weak), 3x5 Wyches, 1xBeastmaster,  2xHellions. 8 Units which means 4 units with 2 Drugs. (2x2 with the same)
So the Hellions got +1S both
And 2 Wyches got +1T, using themel together in the same CC.

That was just an example, but you can double your Drugs pretty well with this index. In my next game I will run 9 units (add a second Beastmaster to the list up there), so 3 couple of 2 units with the same drug. Nice!
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Count Adhemar
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PostSubject: Re: The advantages of Dark Eldar vehicles    Tue Jun 20 2017, 16:04

RAW, if you're choosing drugs for the unit, once each drug has been used once you can use whatever drug you want on your other units.

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Hen Tai, the tentacle guy
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PostSubject: Re: The advantages of Dark Eldar vehicles    Tue Jun 20 2017, 16:33

'fly' units should not be able to travel in transports. I call shenanigans!

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Cerve
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PostSubject: Re: The advantages of Dark Eldar vehicles    Tue Jun 20 2017, 16:33

@Count Adhemar wrote:
RAW, if you're choosing drugs for the unit, once each drug has been used once you can use whatever drug you want on your other units.

Is that...oh. You're right. Nice!
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Count Adhemar
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PostSubject: Re: The advantages of Dark Eldar vehicles    Tue Jun 20 2017, 16:46

@Hen Tai, the tentacle guy wrote:
'fly' units should not be able to travel in transports. I call shenanigans!

It actually seems legit though. Take a look at things like Wave Serpents, which says "Other than JUMP PACK models" in the Transport section. Same with the Rhino and Razorback, whereas Land Raiders and Stormravens specify that JUMP PACK models count as 2 models. Compare that to the Raider and Venom, where no restrictions are listed.

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Hen Tai, the tentacle guy
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PostSubject: Re: The advantages of Dark Eldar vehicles    Tue Jun 20 2017, 16:56

I think it is an oversight, and it will probably be handled in faction specific faq.

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Count Adhemar
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PostSubject: Re: The advantages of Dark Eldar vehicles    Tue Jun 20 2017, 17:13

It might be an oversight but it might also be a benefit of open-topped vehicles. Anyone got the Ork codex? Their vehicles are open-topped too aren't they? Maybe we could compare?

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Skulnbonz
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PostSubject: Re: The advantages of Dark Eldar vehicles    Tue Jun 20 2017, 17:23

@Count Adhemar wrote:
The open-topped rule specifically says "Note that the passengers cannot shoot if this model Falls Back even though the Raider itself can"

I don't think the FLY keyword overrides that although I've not yet seen anything in the rules that says one way or the other.

It also states that "Any restrictions or modifiers applied to this unit also apply to the passengers" , and then they give the EXAMPLE of a unit inside cant shoot because it disengaged. However, if the unit has the FLY rule, they are not prevented from shooting.
The more I read it, the more I think hellions can shoot from inside a raider even if it disengaged from combat.

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