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 Shardnet and Impaler

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Bibitybopitybacon
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PostSubject: Shardnet and Impaler   Sun Jun 11 2017, 21:50

Comparing the Wych special weapons, I'm confused. Why would you ever take the Shardnet and Impaled? You don't get the bonus attack that hydra gauntlets and razorflails give or a reroll. So that's only one attack per wych if we're ignoring drugs. Is there any reason to take them at all?
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Count Adhemar
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PostSubject: Re: Shardnet and Impaler   Sun Jun 11 2017, 21:57

Sadly I came to the same conclusion. I say sadly because I seem to have the shardnets coming out of my ears but only 2 sets of hydra gauntlets!

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Bibitybopitybacon
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PostSubject: Re: Shardnet and Impaler   Sun Jun 11 2017, 22:04

Count Adhemar wrote:
Sadly I came to the same conclusion. I say sadly because I seem to have the shardnets coming out of my ears but only 2 sets of hydra gauntlets!

I'm in the same boat. Except I glued the shardnets on already because I was convinced after the dark eldar preview they would give a bonus to no escape... Teaches me to jump the gun!! Lol
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megatrons2nd
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PostSubject: Re: Shardnet and Impaler   Mon Jun 12 2017, 01:17

They are ap -1 and D2 not the greatest, but it has it's uses. Sadly it is the same as just an impaler, kind of wish it had a bonus attack, a -1 WS to opponents attack roll, a +1 to our attack roll, a +1 to our to wound roll, or something.

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Bibitybopitybacon
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PostSubject: Re: Shardnet and Impaler   Mon Jun 12 2017, 02:31

megatrons2nd wrote:
They are ap -1 and D2 not the greatest, but it has it's uses.  Sadly it is the same as just an impaler, kind of wish it had a bonus attack, a -1 WS to opponents attack roll, a +1 to our attack roll, a +1 to our to wound roll, or something.
But its only 1 attack per Wych. And the 2 damage doesn't role over to a second model. Just don't see a reason to take it at all really.
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Devilogical
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PostSubject: Re: Shardnet and Impaler   Mon Jun 12 2017, 10:26

I think it would be great if shardnet gives not only 2dmg but ability to strike first no matter who charged. It would reference to 3rd edition shardnet and be realy useful this days.


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Count Adhemar
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PostSubject: Re: Shardnet and Impaler   Mon Jun 12 2017, 10:58

The most obvious bonus to give it would, to my mind, be the one that was mentioned earlier - a bonus on the No Escape roll.

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nerdelemental
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PostSubject: Re: Shardnet and Impaler   Mon Jun 12 2017, 13:40

I'm not a player of AoS so this is a question regarding that system as precedence: any chance the faction book will add abilities to existing weapons like this? Or will that book add things like artefacts and just give us other scenario options?
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|Meavar
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PostSubject: Re: Shardnet and Impaler   Mon Jun 12 2017, 15:01

I don't know if they will, but they must give it a bonus.

Now it is such a specific weapon compared to the others.
(You have 1 attack that does 2 wounds)
(Rest gives 2 attacks that do 1 wound and a reroll)


Even in the best case scenario
Against 2 wound models like terminater and having the extra attack drug to make the loss of the attack less you are worse (0.37 wounds for the gauntlets, and 0.30 for the shardnet and impaler).

I think there is no scenario that it is better in the hands of a wych, and it costs more.
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amishprn86
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PostSubject: Re: Shardnet and Impaler   Mon Jun 12 2017, 18:58

Its good against 2w models.

Bikes, Termies, some SM veterans? (or is it vanguards? one of these guys has 2 wounds) etc...

But imo its not a good option for them still.

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|Meavar
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PostSubject: Re: Shardnet and Impaler   Tue Jun 13 2017, 14:14

Why is it less bad versus 2w models.
You lose out on attacks and rerolls to wound. Which end up with more wounds even if you fight multiple wound models. That is the problem, it is always worse, well ok maybe if you fight something with a low t and multiple wounds you win, but even against termies, bikers, Super marines etc. you are still worse.
VB versus terminater I mentioned before:
Gauntlet 3 attacks 2 hits, 1.11 wound,  0.37 after save
Shardnet and impaler 2 attacks 1.33 hits, 0.44 wounds 0.15 after save, 0.3 after double wounds.
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amishprn86
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PostSubject: Re: Shardnet and Impaler   Tue Jun 13 2017, 14:24

B.c 2 wounds through can kill 2, 2w models.

If you are a Bloodbride (only time you take Shardnet/impaler) and get both hits in on turn 3 and you are fighting 2 wound guys, you now have a chance to kill 2 with 1 model, even if they save 1 of the damage rolls you still outright kill the other.

With Hydra Gauntlets you only have a chance to kill 1 and 1 wound another now, if the save 1 armor save you still kill 1 but you dont have that chance to kill 2 models.

Sense you have Drugs you can get +1 Str or Atk as well. So you can wound on 4's or if you need 5's anyways (T5) then get the +1 atk.

PS: I know you are doing probabilities but dice rolls must land on whole numbers, when you are 2+ to hit it is safe to assume all attacks will hit when working with 1-2 attacks.

Would I take Shardnet and Impaler? No i wouldnt but i was giving the use for it and why someone would consider taking it
best scenario for the weapon

Edit: Dont forget that a Farseer Ally in a DE army is extremely strong, you can cast Doom on the enemy to re-roll failed wounds, not saying its best used for Wyches just another layer of fun!

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PostSubject: Re: Shardnet and Impaler   Tue Jun 13 2017, 14:50

I agree on a bloodbride you might take them, since it will be roughly equivalent in an optimal scenario. And it depends on if you prefer reasonably certain to do a wound or 2, or a bit more chance of doing nothing but also the option to kill 2. I usually prefer the safe option since I prefer reliability, it means I can calculate better so I kill enough but do not have much overkill. And having to pay more for the weapon at that.

On the wyches it is always worse except against low thoughness multiwound models and you gave the +1 A drugs. Also do not forget that it is more expensive. Thus we have an more expensive weapon, that in nearly all cases is worse (and with nearly all cases I mean in only 3 or so armies even have the option of fielding a unit where it is not worse).
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amishprn86
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PostSubject: Re: Shardnet and Impaler   Tue Jun 13 2017, 14:57

I'd rather use Blasters/Dis/Lance to kill Multi-wound tough models and -1/-2ap reliable hits/attacks for infantry.

I dont see the need for Shardnet/Impaler was just shower a purpose. I really wish it had a special rule with it like "Hit a Infantry model, that model cant attack" or "Units cant fall back at all" something more useful than 2D.

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