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Hellstrom
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PostSubject: Our new gunboats   Fri Jun 09 2017, 16:15

Just played a game and used Venoms with 4 Splinter Cannons Scourges in. Kabalite gunboats might be dead, but that's good. These things kick ass.

225points gets you a vehicle that moves 16" and shoots 36 poison shots at 18". Even when the vehicle dies, you still have 16 poison shots from the remaining Scourges. Goodbye Nids Wink
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Cerve
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PostSubject: Re: Our new gunboats   Fri Jun 09 2017, 17:11

Or you can have the same result by deepstriking it, and use the Venom with other guys inside :-/


Anyway, not in that way but I still belive in gunboat. For many things they are better than before.
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Hellstrom
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PostSubject: Re: Our new gunboats   Fri Jun 09 2017, 17:24

Scourges get caught in a soft breeze and die at 18" outside of a vehicle.
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CptMetal
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PostSubject: Re: Our new gunboats   Fri Jun 09 2017, 17:31

Why not lance scourges inside the venom? Or inside a boat?

And let kabalites in venoms do the close up dirty work?

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HERO
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PostSubject: Re: Our new gunboats   Fri Jun 09 2017, 17:50

Splinter Cannons are a bit questionable for me in terms of cost-effectiveness. For me, they're considered luxury upgrades.

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Jimsolo
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PostSubject: Re: Our new gunboats   Fri Jun 09 2017, 18:41

Do Venoms still get to DS?
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CurstAlchemist
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PostSubject: Re: Our new gunboats   Fri Jun 09 2017, 19:02

Nope.
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Seshiru
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PostSubject: Re: Our new gunboats   Fri Jun 09 2017, 20:29

The splinter cannon costs more than the scourge to double the fire power at 18" and loses the assault profile. Why not just buy more scourges?

18" isn't amazing range either and if your opponent charges the venom you won't be shooting with the scourges for a while

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Cerve
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PostSubject: Re: Our new gunboats   Fri Jun 09 2017, 21:10

Hellstrom wrote:
Scourges get caught in a soft breeze and die at 18" outside of a vehicle.

Not really. Just deepstrike in cover and you will save at3+ followed by a 6+.

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Archon_91
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PostSubject: Re: Our new gunboats   Fri Jun 09 2017, 21:25

Awesome! My raiders were going to be repurposed for wych use anyway, so now I have a different way to do gunboats
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fisheyes
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PostSubject: Re: Our new gunboats   Fri Jun 09 2017, 22:46

If they are sitting in a vehicle anyway, I dont see the use of using the scourges over other units.

It is a nice gimmic that under very specific circumstances, it may be viable to hide our scourges in vehicles, but this is by no means a winning tactic*

The only way I see myself putting scourges in a vehicle is when I am attempting to deploy first to get the first turn Alpha Strike.

*Note: I have yet to play a game of 8th
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Hellstrom
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PostSubject: Re: Our new gunboats   Sat Jun 10 2017, 11:39

I can't see a cheaper way to get volume of fire. I'm thinking against Horde armies, it's the most efficient way to get damage down. Ignoring close combat of course. I don't fancy 100 Orks in CC.
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helvexis
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PostSubject: Re: Our new gunboats   Sat Jun 10 2017, 14:40

having played a few games 10 warriors in a raider with a splinter cannon and with or without a blaster is a really solid troops choice and even with the raider cost increase. Especially in comparison to other transports.

ours not only have a solid anti tank weapon that can move and fire with no negative but units can fire out of them there are not alot of armies that can do that anymore(us, Harlies, Orks, genestealer cults) no firing ports for rhinos or anything else makes open topped incredible and warriors are the most cost effective thing we can put in there. Not to mention the wasted possible deepstrike into a nice cover position
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CptMetal
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PostSubject: Re: Our new gunboats   Sat Jun 10 2017, 14:46

Do you think two 5 men squads would rock too?

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Dawnstone
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PostSubject: Re: Our new gunboats   Sat Jun 10 2017, 14:47

Scourges may have one possible advantage: due to having the Fly keyword, can they shoot when a Raider retreats? I'm leaning towards yes. Its slightly unclear though, I think they forgot to factor Scourges & Hellions in when they wrote the Open Topped rule.
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CptMetal
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PostSubject: Re: Our new gunboats   Sat Jun 10 2017, 14:48

That's an interesting question and opens up some nice tactics.

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Archon_91
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PostSubject: Re: Our new gunboats   Sat Jun 10 2017, 15:47

I think I heard something about this at some point somewhere but it could be argued that RAW means scourge overrule the unable to fire when in a falling back raider or venom because they have the fly rule as fly let's them act and shoot as normal but I think this is something we should definitely submit to GW for a FAQ ...
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Mononcule
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PostSubject: Re: Our new gunboats   Sat Jun 10 2017, 16:00

I hated gunboats with racks in 7th because of the explosions. Explosions were both common and the consequences were often dramatic.

Now with more durable raiders and less harmful explosion, I'll for sure give gunboat a try, even with the loss of splinter racks. Also to carry 2 5-man units with blaster and agonisers create a quite interesting unit.
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HERO
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PostSubject: Re: Our new gunboats   Sat Jun 10 2017, 18:09

I've been doing 2x units of 5 with a Blaster each in a Raider for max Soulburst.

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helvexis
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PostSubject: Re: Our new gunboats   Sat Jun 10 2017, 23:47

CptMetal wrote:
Do you think two 5 men squads would rock too?

it depends entirely on what your list needs really, if you want more s8 shots then hell yes it is a great way of getting them in and they both stay mobile without having to pay out the nose for another transport. Or you just need more bullets to put down range into that blob of orks coming at you then take 10 man squads with cannons.

Personally i would do either and then build my list around them so if i had a bunch of blasters i would take anti infantry scourge and some ravagers with maybe some reavers or hellions.
If the big squads with a cannon id take some lance scourge with some ravagers and some wyches to tie up and slow down a flank while the massed splinter fire focuses on something else.

you also save points if it is just a 10 man squad with a cannon its even if you take a cannon and a blaster though.
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Chippen
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PostSubject: Re: Our new gunboats   Sun Jun 11 2017, 03:55

It's effective, sure. But at a whopping 225 points, I just don't think it's efficient for what it does. With the abundance of poison and anti-infantry melee in our wheelhouse, do we really need a 225 point investment dedicated to anti-infantry? If I'm gonna field Scourge, I'm putting 4 lances on them and deep striking them, as it's the best anti-vehicle we have (I think?)

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Bibitybopitybacon
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PostSubject: Re: Our new gunboats   Sun Jun 11 2017, 07:10

I'm wondering if scourges with DL in venoms might be a good firebase. Say they're coven venoms and slap a haemy next to them for T6. The -1 to hit is nice.
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CptMetal
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PostSubject: Re: Our new gunboats   Sun Jun 11 2017, 07:11

Or just take a Ravager

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wormfromhell
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PostSubject: Re: Our new gunboats   Sun Jun 11 2017, 08:57

CptMetal wrote:
Or just take a Ravager

yup. or just plain t1 doing scourge with dl's (or heat lances now as no scatter?)
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Chippen
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PostSubject: Re: Our new gunboats   Sun Jun 11 2017, 15:05

wormfromhell wrote:
CptMetal wrote:
Or just take a Ravager

yup. or just plain t1 doing scourge with dl's (or heat lances now as no scatter?)

Well, you have to be within 9" to get the full benefit of Heat Lances, which you can't be on the turn you deep strike. I'd say go Dark Lance, I'd take the S8 improvement from S6 over the ability to reroll the damage, plus with 36" range, you can play some Line of Sight shenanigans.




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