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hekatrixxy
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PostSubject: Re: Using Reavers   Sat Jun 10 2017, 21:51

Here is the exact wording:

"you can pick the bonus the unit receives, but if you do this you cannot choose a bonus that has already been taken by another unit until all six combat drugs have been taken once each".

For me, there is nothing in here that places any restrictions once the "all six combat drugs have been taken once each" has been met.


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RedRegicide
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PostSubject: Re: Using Reavers   Sat Jun 10 2017, 22:22

I misread it, RAW you are correct. I see it getting FaQed tho

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amishprn86
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PostSubject: Re: Using Reavers   Sat Jun 10 2017, 22:29

I read it that way too, but think about it, if you wanted to take full advantage of those rules you need 6 minimum where you might be completely wasting a Drug just to get a better drug somewhere else.

Wasting 2 drugs to get 3-4 drugs that will boost single units isnt that big of a buff IMO, nor is it op at all or needs a FAQ to stop it.

If my Opponenet did this, i wouldnt care at all b.c i know he paid the tax for it.

Edit: +1 WS and +1 LD (Numbers 5/6 on drugs) on turn 3+ are completely pointless, yes we "can" get turn 1 charges sometimes and easily turn 2, but looking at the over all 5 turns, 3/5 turns they are wasted.

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RedRegicide
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PostSubject: Re: Using Reavers   Sat Jun 10 2017, 22:48

Off topic:

+1 A : best for wyches
+ 1S: 2nd best for wyches, best for power sword
+ 1 to hit: succubi with archite glaive
+ 1 T: everyone, especially Reavers or hqs
+ 2 Ld: beast master
+2 move: reaver or hellion

That's how I see them

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amishprn86
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PostSubject: Re: Using Reavers   Sat Jun 10 2017, 22:56

+1 attack only good for Turns 1 and 2 tho. If you cant get into melee then its wasted.

I see the Beastmaster, thats a very good point, i didnt lookat his LD and sense it is 7 having +1 LD is nice. That will help me with my 30 Flocks now!

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RedRegicide
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PostSubject: Re: Using Reavers   Sat Jun 10 2017, 22:59

Did you mean +1 to hit? Glaive is -1 to hit so that counters the "unwieldy"

And it's +2 to leadership! Smile

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amishprn86
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PostSubject: Re: Using Reavers   Sun Jun 11 2017, 00:43

"+ 1 to hit: succubi with archite glaive"

Succubus is 2+, the glaive makes her 3+ so the drug brings her back to a 2+

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RedRegicide
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PostSubject: Re: Using Reavers   Sun Jun 11 2017, 00:44

@amishprn86 wrote:
"+ 1 to hit: succubi with archite glaive"

Succubus is 2+, the glaive makes her 3+ so the drug brings her back to a 2+

Yup exactly, so it actually has a use on her

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Barrywise
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PostSubject: Re: Using Reavers   Sun Jun 11 2017, 09:11

Soooo back to reavers. How would y'all arrange them behind a raider to keep them safe? Turn the raider sideways?

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RedRegicide
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PostSubject: Re: Using Reavers   Sun Jun 11 2017, 16:20

Yeah, might as well do side ways, it wouldn't look thematic but tactically you don't lose anything

The way we played grav it was actually better to not have mine in cover because they would become 3+ armour which would make the grav stronger

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Hen Tai, the tentacle guy
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PostSubject: Re: Using Reavers   Sun Jun 11 2017, 16:46

I have used reavers twice now in same configuration. Group of 9. Two caltrops, one talon, three lances and agonizer on champion. I gave them plus on movement drug, so they moved 18". First game was against ynnari, second against orks. Both games was played with the hammer and anvil spearthing deployment thingy. In both cases I placed reavers up front. First game, I seized and moved them 18" up and ravaged a squad of reapers. Then opponent disembarked a unit of wraithguard and yvraine from a nearby waveserpent and removed them from play. Second game I didn't seize, but the orks only managed one wound in the shooting phase and wasn't able to charge. I was, and I once again finished of a squad of whitled down orks that succumbed to low morale. Then I underestimated the movement of a Stompa, who hits pretty hard. My main impression of them is that they are an exellent alpha strike unit, and their two wounds guarantee that they survive overwatch to do their job, but you allways have to be choosy about where you charge and movement, range and damageoutput of enemy units nearby. Heatlances are great when they hit, btw... I will probably use them in smaller squads from now on, as losing a unit of 9, is loosing a lot of points.

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Trystis
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PostSubject: Re: Using Reavers   Sun Jun 11 2017, 17:05

I have been running mine with lances, but due to str 6 and mediocre to poor rolling I haven't been impressed by the lances. Has anybody experimented with blasters? I know on paper they aren't as good, but the table works very differently than the math sometimes.
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Hen Tai, the tentacle guy
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PostSubject: Re: Using Reavers   Sun Jun 11 2017, 18:08

The blasters have been working great on kabalites, so far. So I think that I will be doing the switch.

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merse24
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PostSubject: Re: Using Reavers   Mon Jun 12 2017, 04:27

Let me start off by saying that I haven't played a game of 8th yet.  So anything I say, take of it what you want haha.

From the battle reports I've watched and all of the rules that I have read, this edition obviously different.  We can't think even think about tactics the same way.  It is appearing to be shaping up to be very situational and you will have to be making more tactical decisions on the fly, rather than just making a good list.

I'm thinking that Reavers will certainly have a role in my army with HL.  I currently see character hunting as an important part of my strategy and Reavers will play an important role in that.  With the HL they will almost be a "swiss army knife" type unit.  It is pretty obvious that most players will be wrapping their characters to protect them, so as DE we've got to use our movement to open up firing lanes.  For example, if an enemy character only has two models protecting him from behind, then I plan to use my movement to get in behind him and take them out....opening up a firing lane to get to his character.  This movement will need to be planned however. Do I have enough fire power close enough to get to those models or do I need my Reavers to kill the models?  Do I have a unit of Scourges ready to come in from DS?  There are a LOT of decisions that will need to be made before or during the movement phase to open up these firing lanes into my opponent's character but I feel that we've got the movement to do it.  I truly see tactics in 8th being more around how to handle situations, instead of the best way to layer character bubbles or the best list that we can create.
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Dark Elf Dave
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PostSubject: Re: Using Reavers   Mon Jun 12 2017, 09:16

@RedRegicide wrote:
You can't advance and assault tho. That was my reasoning.

If you plan on using assault weapons and just shooting with them then you are right, it would be a waste

Your right...I hadn't considered that. I think because I have it in my head that I want shoot with them. I have even thought over the weekend that a Blaster might be more useful than a Heat Lance but I really really want to see how I use Heat Lances.
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amishprn86
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PostSubject: Re: Using Reavers   Mon Jun 12 2017, 10:46

Movement and Positioning is a LARGE part of the game, like against those "Smite spam" lists, if you positions large wound objectives in front of you dudes (Ravor Flocks, other swarms, Monoliths, etc..), smite basically is wasted. If you can split up the IC's no aura, if you can make sure to have LoS against large hitting uits your good, etc.. etc...

I think some units like Biovoures, Wyvrns etc.. ones that dont need LoS and large range might be in many Tournament lists for armies that dont have insane movements. That and Mortal Wounds.... holy crap are Biovoures good lol.

So with that Said Bikes seem like they will be very useful, but for me they are a little to costly for how little they do. Having some unts should do well, but i dont see having 20-24 of them being better than 9-12 and something else.

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Hen Tai, the tentacle guy
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PostSubject: Re: Using Reavers   Mon Jun 12 2017, 12:38

When it comes to character hunting, only really bad players will put them exposed in the back. Majority will hide them in blobs of infantry, so you will have to shoot your way in first. Heatlances won't be effective for that. Better to use a vennom with truborn, armed with splintercannons and a couple of blasters for that.

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merse24
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PostSubject: Re: Using Reavers   Mon Jun 12 2017, 14:58

@Hen Tai.... this is my point exactly. Typically yes, they will be in a blob of infantry and you need to open up firing lanes, to get to the character. BUT by Turn 2 or Turn 3, hopefully that blob of infantry isn't as much of a blob as it was in turn 1 and your opponent is struggling to keep his character hidden. That is when we need to find the weak point, and use our speed to attack it.

I agree that HL is not ideal for attacking single wound models, but if I only need to take out a model or 2 to get to the enemy character and I've got a unit of Reavers that I can use their speed to get into position to make this happen, then I'll gladly use them in this situation....especially if I have a unit of scourges waiting in DS.
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Count Adhemar
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PostSubject: Re: Using Reavers   Mon Jun 12 2017, 16:14

I'm actually thinking their best role may well be objective grabbers. With 24" movement (or 16" +2d6" charge) they can hit an objective on the other side of the table on the last turn fairly easily. At 30ppm they're not cheap but they could still do the job.

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RedRegicide
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PostSubject: Re: Using Reavers   Mon Jun 12 2017, 16:57

If you lock them in with a small range oriented squad you could keep them safe until the final turn then boost

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krayd
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PostSubject: Re: Using Reavers   Mon Jun 12 2017, 17:42

@RedRegicide wrote:
@amishprn86 wrote:
"+ 1 to hit: succubi with archite glaive"

Succubus is 2+, the glaive makes her 3+ so the drug brings her back to a 2+

Yup exactly, so it actually has a use on her

Yes. Though it won't matter by turn 3, because she'll be getting +1 to hit from PfP. However, turn 1/2 assaults appear to be much more likely to happen in this edition.
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Hellstrom
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PostSubject: Re: Using Reavers   Mon Jun 12 2017, 18:19

How are you giving Reavers 3+ save from being behind a Raider??
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RedRegicide
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PostSubject: Re: Using Reavers   Mon Jun 12 2017, 18:44

25% cover

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amishprn86
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PostSubject: Re: Using Reavers   Mon Jun 12 2017, 18:55

Dont think thats a rule anymore, need to dbl check that.

From what i was reading only terrain gives cover now and most the time its 50% before you get it.


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CurstAlchemist
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PostSubject: Re: Using Reavers   Mon Jun 12 2017, 18:56

@RedRegicide Could you tell me what page number or subheading that it states you get the +1 to armor from 25% cover? I must be blind because I keep missing it when I skim through the rules.
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