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Barrywise
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PostSubject: Using Reavers   Fri Jun 09 2017, 06:49

After 7th edition saw some great mileage out of Reavers and Gangs of Commorragh id assume that most DE players have reavers, so I thought I'd start up a thread on their new tactical usefulness.

Will you run groups of 3, 6, 9?

Heat Lance, Blaster, Haywire?

Cluster Caltrops? Grav Talon?

The hammer? The anvil? Character hunter?

Arena Champion kitted out? Agonizer only 4 points now.


To throw in my own perspective from the last game I played. I ran them behind my raider and always kept the raider sideways/angled to make it act as a LOS blocker for the reavers. Then for the movement phase, piled out the wyches and moved the reavers in front to act as the overwatch sponge. I should also note that I have them the +1 T drug. Basically using the reavers to keep an enemy pinned while my other units moved in. I had given them the cluster caltrops thinking that they'd be able to pull out once the wyches got there but they got smote into the dirt. So I'd highly recommend the grav talon in smaller groups, caltrops in larger where you can protect it better.
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Cerve
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PostSubject: Re: Using Reavers   Fri Jun 09 2017, 08:45

It's a nice move, but now you can just assault with your Raider the enemy unit to soak the Overwatch. You don't need sponge units anymore.


Reavers are fine, but they misses H&R, they suffer that they can't fall back and assault (as Hellions do).
Plus they don't have the best antitank gun of this edition (DarkLance) but they wants to be a shooty unit (FLY keyword).
But they don't shoot as Scourges do, neither assault as Hellions (and other units) do.
They can't even hunt enemy characters, because any opponent will surround their char with their units. So he wil be nevet free to get shot.


They can be fine as harrasment unit, for taking little/medium units. But we still decide if we need them or not. Actually, I can't find a spot for these guys in my list. Sadly.
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Dark Elf Dave
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PostSubject: Re: Using Reavers   Fri Jun 09 2017, 11:26

I plan to use Reavers. I will start with a small squad of 3 and use them in small games to start with. Then maybe up to 6 of them.

I plan to give them +1T on the drugs chart and equip them with a Heat Lance and a Grav Talon.

The squad will be a character hunter without a doubt.
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|Meavar
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PostSubject: Re: Using Reavers   Fri Jun 09 2017, 11:54

Same here.
Either 3 with heat lance and grav talon for character hunting.

A unit of 3 also get the job of hunting ranged troops. With 2 wounds 4+ save and t5 they are quite durable, their 16 move (18 if i really wanted and can live with t4) means they can get quite a distance to charge ranged units and make sure they cannot shoot in their shooting phase. Their 7 s4 ap-1 attacks also mean they can kill some small elite marine units (dealing slightly more then 1 wound a turn and suffering slightly less).
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closecraig
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PostSubject: Re: Using Reavers   Fri Jun 09 2017, 12:17

I don't think 3 is going to be durable enough to kill characters. You'll just send them into their deaths in CC. Toughness 5 is pretty high but with the number of attacks units are getting in cc now and characters typically having access to high AP weapons, I'd recommend 6.

I can see a situation with 3 where you charge your opponent who doesn't fall back and the reavers are charged next turn and die horribly. Wasted 100~ points.

A unit of 6 reavers will do a lot more damage and should last if charged by any bodyguard units. Also two Grav Talons is always better than one!
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Cerve
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PostSubject: Re: Using Reavers   Fri Jun 09 2017, 12:39

Sorry but if I deploy my unit in this way.

UUU
UU C UU
UUU


How can you hunt that character? Dunno, I can see a lot of fails in this plan. Counter reavers in that way is extremely easy.
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closecraig
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PostSubject: Re: Using Reavers   Fri Jun 09 2017, 12:43

@Cerve wrote:
Sorry but if I deploy my unit in this way.

              UUU
          UU C UU
             UUU


How can you hunt that character? Dunno, I can see a lot of fails in this plan. Counter reavers in that way is extremely easy.

I would be very surprised if that formation stayed the same throughout the course of the game.

If so, then the reavers can assault other units. 16' gives them the ability to wait for an opening and then take advantage - If they're not dead ofcourse. #DarkEldarProblems



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RedRegicide
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PostSubject: Re: Using Reavers   Fri Jun 09 2017, 12:54

I found they were vicious assault unit

2 grav talons was all I had on my 6. I used them to destroy key marine squads, like devestators or grav

Aim for the enemy gun line, place grav talons between 2 models, getting you 4 rolls, 2 mortal wounds.

S4 -1 rend is actually really good against marines

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Count Adhemar
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PostSubject: Re: Using Reavers   Fri Jun 09 2017, 13:05

@RedRegicide wrote:
Aim for the enemy gun line, place grav talons between 2 models, getting you 4 rolls, 2 mortal wounds

Not sure it works like that. You roll each time you "finish a charge move within 1" of an enemy unit".

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RedRegicide
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PostSubject: Re: Using Reavers   Fri Jun 09 2017, 13:08

Oh you're right, I played that wrong. It refers to enemy unit, not model

I think their real talent is moving 18 and charging. Wyches have to disembark, which can make getting the charge difficult

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Dark Elf Dave
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PostSubject: Re: Using Reavers   Fri Jun 09 2017, 13:18

Heat Lance with -5 AP but only S6 is a very good weapon for killing 2+ armour characters who will all be coming at you with 4-5 wounds. I also feel Heat Lance is a great weapon for fast units.

I am sure some people will surround their characters with a meat shield of troops but hunting the characters is not a first turn plan. Is is about having the right weapon available and within distance at the right time and for me a Heat Lance up close is the best weapon for taking out well armoured high wound models.
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Dark Elf Dave
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PostSubject: Re: Using Reavers   Fri Jun 09 2017, 13:20

They don't move 18" they move 16" so its only 18" with drugs and for a unit that automatically gets an 8" advance rather than D6 I think that's totally wasted their drugs choice.
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RedRegicide
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PostSubject: Re: Using Reavers   Fri Jun 09 2017, 13:23

You can't advance and assault tho. That was my reasoning.

If you plan on using assault weapons and just shooting with them then you are right, it would be a waste

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Painjunky
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PostSubject: Re: Using Reavers   Sat Jun 10 2017, 02:26

3 x 3 reavers - blaster, ago, stunclaw, 339pts, in my 2000pt list.

3 are fast and easy to hide behind terrain and our skimmers.
I will use them to support my assault units,
add to AT shooting,
pressure his backfeild,
murderlate small/shooty/weakened units,
tie up shooting,
absorb overwatch if needed,
grab objs,
block/bubble wrap if needed,
bait in deployment (great with IGOUGO system).

Basically flying around being really annoying jerks. Razz
I can make them work.

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Massaen
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PostSubject: Re: Using Reavers   Sat Jun 10 2017, 02:58

6, 2 heat lances, 2 talons - this is my planned format. +1T combat drug.

T5, 2 wounds, 4+ save makes them pretty durable to small arms fire. The heat lances I think are the go to choice for weapons since they threaten everything well with only marginally less success against really heavy targets.

I might go an agoniser on the champ but not sure... even the talons are only a maybe for me. The caltrops might actually be worth taking having now seen the fallback mechanics at play

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Kantalla
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PostSubject: Re: Using Reavers   Sat Jun 10 2017, 07:43

I don't really see the point in Cluster Caltrops now.

If you get the charge then a Grav Talon is a guaranteed roll, and you might get to roll with caltrops if your opponent chooses to fall back.

If your opponent charges you then it is unlikely they would fall back, so you wouldn't get to use them.

Unless I am misunderstanding something, the Grav Talon seems clearly better for the same points / power level.

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Von Snabel
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PostSubject: Re: Using Reavers   Sat Jun 10 2017, 08:37

Someone else noticed that so not my own observation.

There is a argument that Cluster Caltrops activates when the Reavers Fall Back, not when the unit they fight falls back. Would make sence to become the defensive version to make them more of a shooty unit.
No sure if they got somewhere else with that discussion but to me the wording can go either way.
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Cerve
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PostSubject: Re: Using Reavers   Sat Jun 10 2017, 09:41

@Kantalla wrote:
I don't really see the point in Cluster Caltrops now.

If you get the charge then a Grav Talon is a guaranteed roll, and you might get to roll with caltrops if your opponent chooses to fall back.

If your opponent charges you then it is unlikely they would fall back, so you wouldn't get to use them.

Unless I am misunderstanding something, the Grav Talon seems clearly better for the same points / power level.


Depends. After a re-read of the the thing, I'll prefer Cluster over Talon. The thing is that Reavers there will not my hitting unit, but just an annoying one. They have to assault shooty units. So with Clusters they will work in a way likely Wyches, force the enemy to choose if fall back or not.


IF the words says that...but normally I will not buy Caltrops nor Talon.
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hekatrixxy
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PostSubject: Re: Using Reavers   Sat Jun 10 2017, 09:59

Take a couple of Succubi, 4 min units of Wyches and give all of the initial 6 drug options to them. Then you can take as many Reaver units as you like, giving them all the +1T drug.

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Kantalla
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PostSubject: Re: Using Reavers   Sat Jun 10 2017, 10:23

@Von Snabel wrote:
There is a argument that Cluster Caltrops activates when the Reavers Fall Back, not when the unit they fight falls back. Would make sence to become the defensive version to make them more of a shooty unit.
No sure if they got somewhere else with that discussion but to me the wording can go either way.
The wording is a bit ambiguous, which is awkward.

"each enemy unit within 1" of a model with cluster caltrops that Falls Back..."
"each enemy unit within 1" of a model with cluster caltrops that Falls Back..."

Either bold entry could be the subject of the rule. I guess if it is the second case then Cluster Caltrops are for if you get charged and Grav Talon if you will be doing the charge. Still makes me think Grav Talon is the better choice.

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Minks
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PostSubject: Re: Using Reavers   Sat Jun 10 2017, 11:33

Caltrops are for when you fall-back, that's how they work irl and the wording is just about clear enough, ergo they aren't useless and have a place for hitting and running. Think I'll still largely be using talons but will give them a spin.
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PostSubject: Re: Using Reavers   Sat Jun 10 2017, 12:42

@Kantalla hits the nail on the head. I read it as when the reavers fall back but can see how it can be read the other way.

I simply assumed that (given what caltrops are in real life) that they worked when the reavers fell back

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RedRegicide
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PostSubject: Re: Using Reavers   Sat Jun 10 2017, 13:38

Don't you have to cycle through the drugs? So 7 units could have two +1 T? But 13 units could have three +1 T

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hekatrixxy
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PostSubject: Re: Using Reavers   Sat Jun 10 2017, 16:05

RAW you only have to pick one of each for the first 6 units with drugs. After that you can pick whatever you like. It remains to be seen if this will be FAQ'd to behave as you describe.

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Logan Frost
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PostSubject: Re: Using Reavers   Sat Jun 10 2017, 16:23

I put my money on @RedRegicide interpretation.
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