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 Archon placement in 8th

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Toffeehammer
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PostSubject: Archon placement in 8th   Wed Jun 07 2017, 00:54

So what is everybody thinking of doing with their Archons in the new edition? The way I ran mine in 7th was to give them a shadow field + agoniser and put them in a venom with 4 incubi but since that isn't an option anymore due to units coming in multiples of 5 I'm kind of stumped as to where my boss model should go. Seems like I either give them a venom all to themselves or put them in a raider with a 5 strong unit of something or other.
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Hen Tai, the tentacle guy
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PostSubject: Re: Archon placement in 8th   Wed Jun 07 2017, 01:45

You can still take archon with incubi. Incubi still have the drukhari and infantry keyword. You don't have to take INCUBI as incubi FACTION, unless you hook them up with Drazhar.

Edit. Nevermind. Reread your post and saw the venom.

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Sarkesian
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PostSubject: Re: Archon placement in 8th   Wed Jun 07 2017, 02:46

I feel that the Archon will have his place. He's low cost, boosts leadership (which will be helpful until we get to turn 4). Plus being able to take members of the Court without taking up elite slots is fine with me! He may not be a melee beatstick, but I never expected him to be. He can have a blast pistol, which I think is a hidden gem in our army.

As for venoms, do we know if it is like AoS where you pay for 5 models but can take less if you prefer? That would allow the drazhar and 4 incubi in a venom.
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Massaen
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PostSubject: Re: Archon placement in 8th   Wed Jun 07 2017, 03:12

You can indeed run a single, under strength unit but you still pay for the unit as if it was minimum size

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amishprn86
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PostSubject: Re: Archon placement in 8th   Wed Jun 07 2017, 06:36

The few games i played my Archon did great, he is super cheap now, i run him with Agoniser and Blast Pistol, i put him with a unit in a Raider and use him as a anti charge guy, the kabal unit also has an Agoniser and a blast pistol.

For me this worked out great, one thing we will need to get used to is LOTS of melee.

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Count Adhemar
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PostSubject: Re: Archon placement in 8th   Wed Jun 07 2017, 07:29

I'm probably going to do Archon (Blaster and PGL), 4 Sslyth, Venom. Hang around at ~18" range and pump 24 poison shots into something plus a Blaster and PGL into anything else. Once they disembark, they are still a reasonable combat unit and the Archon has 16 ablative wounds plus his Shadowfield to keep him alive.

Not brilliant but better than a taxi service for CWE!

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Painjunky
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PostSubject: Re: Archon placement in 8th   Wed Jun 07 2017, 08:33

Agonizer, blaster and PGL.
I will try using my archon as a second wave, supporting character.

While the first wave goes in for the kill he sits at 18" unloading his blaster and PGL next to the other kabbie units unloading their blasters and PGLs and rifles.

This puts him in the best place to use his LD bubble and do mop up duties. Cool



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Toffeehammer
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PostSubject: Re: Archon placement in 8th   Wed Jun 07 2017, 13:20

Oh, I had no idea you could take underpowered units. Thanks, that actually helps a lot. I might be paying for an incubi I'm not using but keeping my melee HQ with my melee heavy hitters is probably worth it. Also, I've always loved the fluffiness of an archon rolling into battle with their incubi. Also, I've literally never taken a DE list without incubi in my life and it'd just be a crying shame to start now.
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|Meavar
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PostSubject: Re: Archon placement in 8th   Wed Jun 07 2017, 14:16

Unfortunately officially you can only do this if you do not have enough models to field the full unit. So you can only have one understrength unit of the incubi and no other incubi.
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Toffeehammer
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PostSubject: Re: Archon placement in 8th   Wed Jun 07 2017, 19:17

@|Meavar wrote:
Unfortunately officially you can only do this if you do not have enough models to field the full unit. So you can only have one understrength unit of the incubi and no other incubi.

Dang, that sucks then. Back to the drawing board I guess.
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krayd
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PostSubject: Re: Archon placement in 8th   Wed Jun 07 2017, 19:24

@Toffeehammer wrote:
@|Meavar wrote:
Unfortunately officially you can only do this if you do not have enough models to field the full unit. So you can only have one understrength unit of the incubi and no other incubi.

Dang, that sucks then. Back to the drawing board I guess.

I'd check to see exactly how it's worded in the rulebook first. After all, if you've got 9 incubi.. and you're trying to field 2 units of 5, then You *don't* have enough models to field the units that you want to, so you need to field the second unit as 4 incubi.
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Imateria
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PostSubject: Re: Archon placement in 8th   Thu Jun 08 2017, 00:12

@krayd wrote:
@Toffeehammer wrote:
@|Meavar wrote:
Unfortunately officially you can only do this if you do not have enough models to field the full unit. So you can only have one understrength unit of the incubi and no other incubi.

Dang, that sucks then. Back to the drawing board I guess.

I'd check to see exactly how it's worded in the rulebook first. After all, if you've got 9 incubi.. and you're trying to field 2 units of 5, then You *don't* have enough models to field the units that you want to, so you need to field the second unit as 4 incubi.
It's an example not a a hard and fast rule as it would be truly idiotic. I mean how does someone police that, go round to peoples houses to make sure they're not leaving models behind?
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Demantiae
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PostSubject: Re: Archon placement in 8th   Thu Jun 08 2017, 11:32

It's the kind of thing that every gaming group and certainly every tournie will house-rule as either you cannot do that or you can, in all situations.

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|Meavar
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PostSubject: Re: Archon placement in 8th   Thu Jun 08 2017, 11:42

The sentence that mentions it. "Sometimes you may find that you do not have enough models to field a minimum sized unit; if this is the case you can still include one unit of that type in your army with as many models as you have availible.
If you are using points, you must still pay the points cost as if you had a minimum-sized unit, even though it contains fewer models. An understrength unit still takes up the appropriate slot in a detechment."

Underlining for emphasis is my own.
So I think if you have 9 models you could field anything from 1-9 in a single unit. But RAW I think you cannot have a unit of 5 and a unit of 4. Now I would say you could field anything from 1-9 if you leave the other models you are not using at home, since then you do not have enough models to field a minimum sized unit at that moment. The fact that you have more somewhere else is irrelevant.
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Toffeehammer
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PostSubject: Re: Archon placement in 8th   Thu Jun 08 2017, 13:34

Well I've been playing a 4 man squad of incubi for years and I kind of have genuinely lost the 5th model so it wouldn't even be a lie to say I don't have enough models to field a minimum strength unit. I guess it's just a matter of waiting to see if not being allowed to do that becomes a popular house rule at tournaments or not. If it does finding a place for my archon is going to be a little tricky.
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HERO
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PostSubject: Re: Archon placement in 8th   Thu Jun 08 2017, 17:59

Archon is a great buy.

Agonizer/Blaster/PGL is pretty much all you need at 76 points.

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amishprn86
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PostSubject: Re: Archon placement in 8th   Thu Jun 08 2017, 18:11

The PGL replaces a shooting attack i believe doesnt it?

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CptMetal
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PostSubject: Re: Archon placement in 8th   Thu Jun 08 2017, 18:15

No. You can shoot all weapons you have. Even at different targets.

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amishprn86
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PostSubject: Re: Archon placement in 8th   Thu Jun 08 2017, 18:15

Yeah, i keep forgetting even single infantry can.

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tegs
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PostSubject: Re: Archon placement in 8th   Thu Jun 08 2017, 18:27

I really wish they'd bump Venoms up to transport 6 models for exactly this reason and to bring them in line with the Harlie equivalent.

I don't think it's as big a deal as it used to be, though, since Raiders are now significantly better.

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|Meavar
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PostSubject: Re: Archon placement in 8th   Fri Jun 09 2017, 07:43

We all do. And of course the venom is the little weak brother of the starweaver.
You pay 4 points more for the starweaver and get:
6 assault s6 shuricen shots (would rather have this I think)
vs 6rapid fire poinson shots
ws 3+ s5 3 attacks
ws4+ s4 with -1 ap 2 attacks
4++
5++
advance 6 (and shoot guns)
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6 people on board
5 people
So I think we can say the starweaver is way better for what you get than our trusty venom :S
So I hope they change the transport capacity to 6 as well.
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Azdrubael
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PostSubject: Re: Archon placement in 8th   Fri Jun 09 2017, 07:54

Before there was 2 versions of Archon - cheap and expensive one.

Well, the expensive one isnt possible to make, but cheap one is better and cheaper. He is hitting on a 2+, with agoniser thats pretty much the same, and has the same shadowfield. He also got downgraded in LD, kinda strange.

But the only sane and actually only one possible load-out is Ago, PGL, Blast Pistol/Blaster. Not much room to play around.

A pity old beast of 7th is gone. With SF, Armor of Misery, Soul Trap and Agoniser/Huskblade all in a band of Grots. That was super expensive, inefficient but crazy fun character. Wiping units off the board, causing them to roll on fear with big minuses and getting stronger with each character killed, or just making a challenges that was always refused out of fear. That was really really cool.

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PostSubject: Re: Archon placement in 8th   Fri Jun 09 2017, 10:13

@Count Adhemar wrote:
I'm probably going to do Archon (Blaster and PGL), 4 Sslyth, Venom. Hang around at ~18" range and pump 24 poison shots into something plus a Blaster and PGL into anything else. Once they disembark, they are still a reasonable combat unit and the Archon has 16 ablative wounds plus his Shadowfield to keep him alive.

Not brilliant but better than a taxi service for CWE!

Thisssssss!

All those ranged weapons are Assault, too, so this unit is durable and mobile with decent damage potential both in ranged combat and melee.
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The Shredder
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PostSubject: Re: Archon placement in 8th   Fri Jun 09 2017, 11:13

@Count Adhemar wrote:
I'm probably going to do Archon (Blaster and PGL), 4 Sslyth, Venom. Hang around at ~18" range and pump 24 poison shots into something plus a Blaster and PGL into anything else. Once they disembark, they are still a reasonable combat unit and the Archon has 16 ablative wounds plus his Shadowfield to keep him alive.

If I use an Archon, it'll be like this. Melee definitely seems like a secondary choice for the Archon now.
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