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Old_Soul
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PostSubject: Corsairs may be dropped from Gen 8.    Sun Jun 04 2017, 14:25

Greetings Dark city and fellow Kin.

I live in the UK not far from GW HQ. I know a fair amount of employee's from forgeworld.

After viewing their subsidiary index for forgeowlrd Xenos i noticed immediately that Corsair where missing a fair few of their units.

I called forgeworld to question them, this was the answer i got :

" the current index is to get you by until we release proper campaign books for gen 8 ( of which he confessed only one has been wriiten so far ) and the models listed in the forethcoming FW index are only for units they have physical models for"

Thats fine i thought, makes sense and i appreciated that they would gives us some rules to play with. However as the conversation ensued i asked about Corsair rules, reckless abandon for movement and internal politics for list building, to which i recieved this response :

" Im not sure how any of those rules will work, it is possible that Corsair will become several small units to be allied with Ynnari, Dark and Craft instead of being an army in their own right "

Needless to say i said that this was extrememly narrow minded and to be honest a bit of slap in the face to all of us who have invested thousands of pounds / dollars and hours into creating our Fleet raiding companies. The Prince/Princess's obsessions, Cotories specialisations, Corsair venoms, Void burners ect could all be dropped.

I must stress that he was not at all 100 percent certain of anything so it could just be spilt milk but even if FW do decide to bring, in my opinion, the greatest Eldar army into gen 8 40k it may take a long time for the books to surface and means another 50 pounds / 70 dollars for yet another book.

I thought i would share my experience here with my kin, can anyone shed more light ( not too much light though Razz ) onto this topic? Has anyone heard anything different?

I am new to gaming but have been collecting and reading about 40k for 20 years and ill say now as this is my first post, thankyou Sky Serpent for creating this awesome forum for the true rulers of this feeble Galaxy and hello everyone!!

OS

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PostSubject: Re: Corsairs may be dropped from Gen 8.    Sun Jun 04 2017, 16:35

My opinion is that many people were using corsair just because the reels were very cool and the model very cheap (point wise). I personally have no problem if corsari disappear as an army as long as archon (or other hq) will get some cool obsession rules in the new codex and as long as we will be able to insert corsair units in our army. After all corsairs have always been a mix of dark kin and craftwolders anyway, especially in their first forgeworld list

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PostSubject: Re: Corsairs may be dropped from Gen 8.    Sun Jun 04 2017, 16:56

Interesting point of view.

But Corsair are not a mix of Dark and craftworld are they? My understanding is they are the oldest survivers of the Royal class of Ancient Eldar. If im wrong i stand corrected.

They trade with Dark and craft for sure but they are nothing like either faction.

No corsair has to torture and murder to prevent their soul from belonging to Slannesh. Neither do they have any affinity to a craftworld.

When the army is properly understood its unique construction style makes for a very flexible force, with cotorie abilities and the very core of what makes Eldar aweosme to play with....SPEED.

Plus when you jetpack a Void dreamer into enemy lines and successfully possess her with a Bloodthirster nothing beats the look on your oppenents face as his Skyhammer begins to crumble all around him.

Sorry Gherma but i strongly disagree, there is so much more to Corsair, they are pretty new and havent been fully explored yet and if you haven't fielded a full Corsair list (1850) your missing out my Kin.

Archons having obsessions is a cool idea though, badass.

OS

P.S Corsair arent cheap points wise, they are more expensive across the board. Their jetbikes are the most expensive.

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PostSubject: Re: Corsairs may be dropped from Gen 8.    Sun Jun 04 2017, 17:23

I can't pretend to know what the future holds and the problem with contacting FW on the matter is that they really can't reveal things that haven't been announced yet. So while they might allow a small slip here and there they can't really tell us the details without permission from the higher ups or risk their jobs.

I hope that they release a new campaign book with a full list, I would love for them to even expand their catalogue of units created.
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Skip the below part if you don't want to read my rant about my views on Eldar Corsairs and my motivations for collecting them.

Speaking for myself the concept behind the Corsairs is why I played them not their competitiveness. The lore behind them, and the call backs to Rogue Trader days drew me into wanting to build a force for them. Being able to play Eldar that were supposed to be closer to the Eldar Imperials pre-darkening and fall had and remains an appeal to me. They are less extreme then Dark Eldar and Craftworld Eldar while not being a band of religious zealot performers.

Yes many of the Corsairs join or go back to Craftworlds when they get tired of the life, other become more depraved and join the Dark Eldar (or go back to them if that is where they are from and what they wish to do) but many of them were born to and like the life of the Corsair. Corsairs are made up of people from all faction excluding the Harlequins (well maybe the occasional Solitaire taking a break) but many are also tied to Royal and Noble families that survived the Fall and were never part of the Craftworlds and Dark Eldar. They are the last spark of what the Eldar once were before the Darkening of the Empire brought the Eldar race to the development of Cultures of Extremes (as a general rule). I view the other groups of Eldar (Dark Eldar, Craftworld, Exodites, and Harlequins) as cultures that have devolved into fanaticism of differing ideologies.

I'm a very story driven person on my choices of armies to collect. I never was able to fully commit to a Craftworld Army because I never could get into their culture yet I had no problem getting into and creating narratives and personal fluff for my Dark Eldar Kabal and Harlequin Masque. The now to be unfinished (until I know what the future holds for them) Corsair project has a back story and I have even named the Characters and defined their personalities. I can't deny many people got into Corsairs for their competitive aspect but there are many people like me out there as well that began a project for them as much for the story aspect as anything else.
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PostSubject: Re: Corsairs may be dropped from Gen 8.    Sun Jun 04 2017, 18:28

Wonderful post friend.

Agreed about your comments on FW staff. im just so concerned because, like yourself, i collect for the lore and the theorycraft behind my Corsair Royal fleet, ive spend countless hours on converting nearly everything to fit the histories behind their forming.

My Princess has a story to tell and my enitre fleet is named and painted accordingly and thats why i love forgeowlrd so much, their models have a history.

Personally the mashing together of the Eldar races has left a bad taste in my mouth and i worry sales of kits will take over, corsair becoming just another unit with soulburst.

If you would be willing to share your Lore behind your corsairs via email or something i would very much like to read it, maybe collaborate our fleets into a campaign narritive? Up to you Wink

Princess Ia'anna would deem it an honour.

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PostSubject: Re: Corsairs may be dropped from Gen 8.    Sun Jun 04 2017, 18:59

I have talked to GW a few times about Corsairs (Im the one that got the main kit pulled from the web store.... sorry Sad about that).

They told me a couple times that there will still be rules for all current armies and no army will be drop.

I'm assuming the Index wont have all the rules for any army, but Corsairs just might be starting out with the least for now.

With that said it might not happen still, but sense I saw 3 of the units are still here i'm not worried at all.

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PostSubject: Re: Corsairs may be dropped from Gen 8.    Sun Jun 04 2017, 19:35

Thats a good point, and more positive.

Lets hope!!

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PostSubject: Re: Corsairs may be dropped from Gen 8.    Sun Jun 04 2017, 20:31

How do they prevent Slaanesh eating their souls anyway?

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PostSubject: Re: Corsairs may be dropped from Gen 8.    Sun Jun 04 2017, 22:08

I have never seen that explained in the things I've read.
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PostSubject: Re: Corsairs may be dropped from Gen 8.    Sun Jun 04 2017, 22:11

I assumed they do w.e their background is in, sense most of them are Eldar they do it that way where others like from DE keep up with their ways.

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PostSubject: Re: Corsairs may be dropped from Gen 8.    Mon Jun 05 2017, 11:52

Slannesh is constantly leeching life from the Eldar, especially thosae who were close to Iydris when the fall happened, DE cannot re-incarnate anymore and are ( until the dark prince is destroyed ) stuck in the mortal realms....

Lexicanum explains it best:

"Over time, Dark Eldar begin to suffer more and more from The Thirst. They develop an all-consuming and ever-increasing need to drink the souls of other beings. It is postulated that the cause of this is the Chaos God Slaanesh, the Great Enemy of the Eldar, who leeches the soul-essence of the Dark Eldar while they still live. Dark Eldar drink souls to stave off this leeching - perhaps by sating the thirst of Slaanesh, or perhaps by replenishing the essence of their own souls with that of the consumed one. Slaanesh will also consume the souls of Dark Eldar whole should they die. Dark Eldar are long-lived but not immortal; drinking souls has a rejuvenating effect that reverses ageing, thus Dark Eldar need not fear falling into the clutches of Slaanesh due to death from old age, if they have a constant supply of souls. The usual source of souls is the many captives taken during Dark Eldar raids."

This is why Corsair to me are nothing like DE or Craftworld, closer to what the Eldar were before th fall.

Hope GW doenst ged rid of them to support the awful Ynnari fluff.....Sad

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PostSubject: Re: Corsairs may be dropped from Gen 8.    Mon Jun 05 2017, 21:59

Well I would be certainly disappointed to see them go. However from their own practical POV, I think they would be the first to jump Ynnead bandwagon. I consider Ynnari fluff cheeky, but not ridiculous. One can hardly be ridiculous in W40K, can he? :-D I would be even glad to see them as the first purely Ynnari units. Much more preferrable to seeing them in CWE index...

Dark Eldar are changing. The galaxy is changing. The obsesiveness and sadism and hunger is no cooler than CWE stuckuppery. Both are things of the past. Eldar need a god. A belief. And a protection from Slaanesh. Who knows, maybe without the need for rigid discipline and torture of others will create an interesting plethora of characters and views... They do not need Vect and Commoragh ruled by his iron hand. They do not even need Eldrad and his railroading. Noone forbids us slaves or ruthless ways. But since we are no longer forced to it, we may enjoy it that much more...
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PostSubject: Re: Corsairs may be dropped from Gen 8.    Mon Jun 05 2017, 22:16

Didn't someone post in another thread about some mail he got from Forgeworld. But according to him they'll be back. The books dropping now will be kind of like the indexes and will be replaced soon. (Some Aussi dude wrote something like that)

Edit: Found it. They talked about it in this thread
http://www.thedarkcity.net/t15462-forgeworld-xenos-index-table-of-contents
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PostSubject: Re: Corsairs may be dropped from Gen 8.    Mon Jun 05 2017, 22:21

They told me "no army is being dropped" idk about the other guys comments but just b.c they are not dropped doesnt mean they get full rules, they could be Corsair units with Eldar with an alternative rule "Instead of Battlefocus Corsairs get Reckless Abandonment". lets hope its not that and it is a full rule set later.

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PostSubject: Re: Corsairs may be dropped from Gen 8.    Tue Jun 06 2017, 00:52

@aurynn wrote:
Well I would be certainly disappointed to see them go. However from their own practical POV, I think they would be the first to jump Ynnead bandwagon. I consider Ynnari fluff cheeky, but not ridiculous. One can hardly be ridiculous in W40K, can he? :-D I would be even glad to see them as the first purely Ynnari units. Much more preferrable to seeing them in CWE index...

Dark Eldar are changing. The galaxy is changing. The obsesiveness and sadism and hunger is no cooler than CWE stuckuppery. Both are things of the past. Eldar need a god. A belief. And a protection from Slaanesh. Who knows, maybe without the need for rigid discipline and torture of others will create an interesting plethora of characters and views... They do not need Vect and Commoragh ruled by his iron hand. They do not even need Eldrad and his railroading. Noone forbids us slaves or ruthless ways. But since we are no longer forced to it, we may enjoy it that much more...

Thats a really interesting way to look at the progression GW are making with the story, alot of it sounds great and makes alot of sense.

Rant alert:

For me 40k is a beautiful Science fiction because the Galaxy is in turmoil and has many aspects, rogue trader, bounty hunter, pirate style armies and factions are so important and bring great variation to the game. If they slowly unite armies into like 4 main factions it wont be the chaotic place it once was.

Is it so bad to leave just one of the Eldar factions alone from this mass unification, rogue traders for life!? I love their mysterious origins, it opens them up for great theorycraft and conversions. Not neccessary to have models for everything, converting brings a great unique flavour to the hobby. Years ago i used to love calling GW HQ with my 1998 annual and ordering metal parts for my Nurgle list! Good times Very Happy

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PostSubject: Re: Corsairs may be dropped from Gen 8.    Tue Jun 06 2017, 00:55

@Von Snabel wrote:
Didn't someone post in another thread about some mail he got from Forgeworld. But according to him they'll be back. The books dropping now will be kind of like the indexes and will be replaced soon. (Some Aussi dude wrote something like that)

Edit: Found it. They talked about it in this thread
http://www.thedarkcity.net/t15462-forgeworld-xenos-index-table-of-contents


Thanks for link. Apologies i didnt see this post, i wouldnt have started this thread if i had.

Sorry CurstAlchemist!

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PostSubject: Re: Corsairs may be dropped from Gen 8.    Tue Jun 06 2017, 07:04

@Old_Soul wrote:
@aurynn wrote:
Well I would be certainly disappointed to see them go. However from their own practical POV, I think they would be the first to jump Ynnead bandwagon. I consider Ynnari fluff cheeky, but not ridiculous. One can hardly be ridiculous in W40K, can he? :-D I would be even glad to see them as the first purely Ynnari units. Much more preferrable to seeing them in CWE index...

Dark Eldar are changing. The galaxy is changing. The obsesiveness and sadism and hunger is no cooler than CWE stuckuppery. Both are things of the past. Eldar need a god. A belief. And a protection from Slaanesh. Who knows, maybe without the need for rigid discipline and torture of others will create an interesting plethora of characters and views... They do not need Vect and Commoragh ruled by his iron hand. They do not even need Eldrad and his railroading. Noone forbids us slaves or ruthless ways. But since we are no longer forced to it, we may enjoy it that much more...

Thats a really interesting way to look at the progression GW are making with the story, alot of it sounds great and makes alot of sense.

Rant alert:

For me 40k is a beautiful Science fiction because the Galaxy is in turmoil and has many aspects, rogue trader, bounty hunter, pirate style armies and factions are so important and bring great variation to the game. If they slowly unite armies into like 4 main factions it wont be the chaotic place it once was.

Is it so bad to leave just one of the Eldar factions alone from this mass unification, rogue traders for life!? I love their mysterious origins, it opens them up for great theorycraft and conversions. Not neccessary to have models for everything, converting brings a great unique flavour to the hobby. Years ago i used to love calling GW HQ with my 1998 annual and ordering metal parts for my Nurgle list! Good times Very Happy
40K is fantasy in space. There is very little SCIENCE fiction about it. :-D However it was unique and gritty and morbid and perverse and unlike anything else. I understand how removing this grit even just a little bit might mean removing its appeal, but twists with dead gods and prophets are part of the "fantasy culture". I always hated racial stereotypes. DE appeal was for me that they at leas had some semblance of freedom. Same appeal I got when I started my Corsairs. But still both races (and CWE and Eldar Hippies) are bound within behavioral structures.

CWE are arrogant SOBs because they are disciplined, never realizing that they are like obedient children led on a schooltrip by a farseer teacher. There is little in their lives that is within their own control. Afraid of consequences of stepping out of the safety of soulstones society. Fear controls them.

DE are like inmates of a huge prison colony. They can go wherever they want save for stepping on their superiors' (overseers') toes, but always have to get back or they lose contact with their haemis and resources to get what they want - souls. Fear controls them.

Corsairs? They are teenagers with issues. They scream "freedom" but they are lost in fear of what will happen to them but too stubborn to exchange obedience for safety. They feel "her" pull every single day. They are a highschool gang that managed to get guns and knives and cars where people around them footslog and carry tazers and pepper sprays while feeling the police and law close up on them. Again... fear controls them.

Exodites are like old people. They dont want anything beyond being left alone, brooding over all galaxy being insane, rash and doing everything wrong. Looking up from their retirement homes (sorry, I mean maiden worlds) going "tsk tsk tsk", shaking heads and wiggling fingers while adding to fracturing of the galaxy by inaction and inability. Trading a little of "now" for the future. They do not fear beyond that someone will come "visit" them. :-D

So one can say that from time to time Eldar will stop being obedient children and start being teenagers. Get into trouble and from there they can sway back to obedience, get into prison or keep focused on his issues pretending they have none and stay a Corsair. Or grow old... :-D

I have always tried to come up with some backgrounds outside these confines but it was difficult. I do not believe in majority of extremes in any society and wanted my DE and Corsairs and CWE be more than what was prescribed for them.

Therefore you see, the current fluff in my eyes means evolution from these confines into much more open society. It means that Eldar may try to rediscover what it means to be Eldar again and that is exciting. I may not like the way it is written, but hey, there are many badly written good stories. :-D Hell I loved Conan for all those over the top fantasy plots! And here I almost gotten myself swayed to hatred of it due to public opinion. I will read Conan again three times as penitence. :-D

That being said... I like to play DE as DE, DE as Ynnari, DE+CWE as Ynnari, DE+Corsairs, Ynnari+Corsairs. BUT... in all fairness due to making my own fluff, I played Corsairs mainly because of their game power on competitive matches. Now with 8th... I do not have the need actually. DE are sitting pretty tight right now IMO. We were finally given means to play as DE and I love it. No more DE pretending to be Tau. We are playing real badass in-da-face-corsair style now! So neither style nor power level calls for Corsairs from MY point of view. But then again its not the only opinion and I would rather have as many people having fun with this game as possible. If that means keeping Corsairs as standalone army, I am more than happy with it. :-)


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PostSubject: Re: Corsairs may be dropped from Gen 8.    Tue Jun 06 2017, 13:37

Corsairs are probably in that same niche that Sisters are in, and may get the Sisters treatment where they're considered as mostly units to be used to support other Imperial armies, but that which you could build an entire army from if you really wanted to. But I doubt we'll see them as a faction on the scale of the Craftworlds or DE, or even the Harlies. They'd be the 5th tier Eldar faction that only a small number of people play.

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PostSubject: Re: Corsairs may be dropped from Gen 8.    Tue Jun 06 2017, 13:47

Hehe interesting anthropomorphic breakdown on the Eldar.

Agree there is not alot of SCIENCE in 40k but then what do we know about the possibilities of science anyway, we cant even pass our own radiation belt, the Emporer needs to sort that out IMO! Very Happy

Glad your cool with Corsairs remaining a seperate faction, i feel that if they do this it pleases everybody. All the tournament ppl are happy with having some Corsair units to play with if they choose, but ppl like me who are in it for the hobby not the glory can still theorycraft and convert and create a force with some individuality to it ( which is what this hobby is great for ). The other posts in here seem to have a concensus that GW and FW arent goping to drop them, but i stand by my first post as that was what i was told, its a possibility.

As for not having the need for game power in 8th, IMO, its way too early for anybody to know what we need in 8th. Im in my 3rd century on this blue ball and i have heard all this talk from GW before about new editions. When the Codex's finally come out they will all break the rules in one way or another and power play will return. We true Kin on the galaxy NEED Corsair to remain with their awesome variation and abilities to keep the Skyhammer douchbags on their toes!! Like i said before, only time i ever beat a Skyhammer with a librarius conclave was with " Weilder of Profane powers" and i managed to summon a Bloodthirster. My opponenet just wasnt ready for it, he whiffed his Grav overwatch and got slaughtered. Epic!!!!!

Agreed about them being is "Sisters" territory i bit. But their force organisation is totally unique and thats what make them badass. I know little about Monkiegh factions. But Coterie construction works so well. I played many games at 1850 with Corsair and my opponenet never had the drop on me due to the vast array of play options they have.

They must remain, they are too damn cool.

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PostSubject: Re: Corsairs may be dropped from Gen 8.    Wed Jun 07 2017, 06:22

@CptMetal wrote:
How do they prevent Slaanesh eating their souls anyway?

Don't die.

That's basically it. They don't have the developed protections of the CWE or DE. That's why their perils of the warp chart is so nasty.

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PostSubject: Re: Corsairs may be dropped from Gen 8.    Wed Jun 07 2017, 07:25

@aurynn wrote:
Well I would be certainly disappointed to see them go. However from their own practical POV, I think they would be the first to jump Ynnead bandwagon. I consider Ynnari fluff cheeky, but not ridiculous. One can hardly be ridiculous in W40K, can he? :-D I would be even glad to see them as the first purely Ynnari units. Much more preferrable to seeing them in CWE index...

Dark Eldar are changing. The galaxy is changing. The obsesiveness and sadism and hunger is no cooler than CWE stuckuppery. Both are things of the past. Eldar need a god. A belief. And a protection from Slaanesh. Who knows, maybe without the need for rigid discipline and torture of others will create an interesting plethora of characters and views... They do not need Vect and Commoragh ruled by his iron hand. They do not even need Eldrad and his railroading. Noone forbids us slaves or ruthless ways. But since we are no longer forced to it, we may enjoy it that much more...

I have no problem with the Eldar as a race expanding, it's when they started *changing* things that it bothered me. Mostly because there was absolutely zero consideration for those of us who enjoyed it the way it was.

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PostSubject: Re: Corsairs may be dropped from Gen 8.    Wed Jun 07 2017, 16:50

@TeenageAngst wrote:
@aurynn wrote:
Well I would be certainly disappointed to see them go. However from their own practical POV, I think they would be the first to jump Ynnead bandwagon. I consider Ynnari fluff cheeky, but not ridiculous. One can hardly be ridiculous in W40K, can he? :-D I would be even glad to see them as the first purely Ynnari units. Much more preferrable to seeing them in CWE index...

Dark Eldar are changing. The galaxy is changing. The obsesiveness and sadism and hunger is no cooler than CWE stuckuppery. Both are things of the past. Eldar need a god. A belief. And a protection from Slaanesh. Who knows, maybe without the need for rigid discipline and torture of others will create an interesting plethora of characters and views... They do not need Vect and Commoragh ruled by his iron hand. They do not even need Eldrad and his railroading. Noone forbids us slaves or ruthless ways. But since we are no longer forced to it, we may enjoy it that much more...

I have no problem with the Eldar as a race expanding, it's when they started *changing* things that it bothered me. Mostly because there was absolutely zero consideration for those of us who enjoyed it the way it was.

Understandable POV, but it is inevitable in a system of this magnitude that is being ran as a business as new customers and broadening the audience will allways be more profitable than appeasing the old ones. Happens with comics, series, movies, games, even books... And thats only half of it. The other is that W40K is here for decades. The setting grew beyond any one man to keep and govern. From time to time retcon has to bring everything down into manageable focus. This happened now. Fluff and Rules. Expansion will begin soon. :-)
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PostSubject: Re: Corsairs may be dropped from Gen 8.    Wed Jun 07 2017, 21:02

"This just happens to keep things profitable." I saw the financial statements before this new lore began, the company was doing very well. This was just an attempt to build hype for 8e, which is fine, but unnecessary and certainly not inevitable. If you like it, fine, but I liked it the way it was, and as far as I'm concerned, I've been left out in the cold of my favorite hobby.

Edit, that was a bit harsh of me
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aurynn
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PostSubject: Re: Corsairs may be dropped from Gen 8.    Wed Jun 07 2017, 22:42

I cannot say I especially "like" it. I am just not letting it destroy the enjoyment I have from the game. There is very very little of GW fluff that influences my experience. Why would I brood over it? They can retcon all they want. I... well... don't really care. Any new lore I take as a book. I either like it or not. Nothing to do with the game. Well... more precisely - only as much to do with the game as I let it.
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TeenageAngst
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PostSubject: Re: Corsairs may be dropped from Gen 8.    Wed Jun 07 2017, 23:18

I enjoyed the lore originally, it was cool to me. It made me want to buy models, and then I enjoyed the models and the lore I built around them as I was trying to cobble them together and paint them. It took about a year before I ever played the game, but then you had a neat verisimilitude in the game that matched the feel of the models and the story behind them and it all kinda meshed into a nice narrative if you didn't intentionally try to break it. I loved that, it added so much for me. If I were to not pay attention or care about the lore, then all I have left is a vastly overpriced tiny plastic space elfs and a generic dice game.

_________________
Really terrible videos about tiny plastic space elfs intended to help you get gud scrub:
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCcZP8WGIhte5TmCWQXsZO4A

Flawless pieces of literary perfection:
https://www.fanfiction.net/u/2805979/
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