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Mppqlmd
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PostSubject: Re: rant about GW and play testers    Sat Jul 29 2017, 15:48

I couldn't agree more. The fact that every vehicle now has the "assault transport" rule, and the fact that you disembark at the beginning of the movement phase, put us in a position where everyone has vehicles that are better suited for assault than ours.
So that's what i had in mind when i said our army is great if you want to play a Kabal, but clearly not great if you want to run a grotesquerie, and may the gods help you if you want to play a Wych cult.

Only 33% of our fluff is fonctional.

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The Strange Dark One
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PostSubject: Re: rant about GW and play testers    Sat Jul 29 2017, 16:12

We make up the lack of ranged dakka and expensive transports by buying Splinter Racks on Raiders.
Owait, that was 7th edition.


Anyway, it wouldn't be so bad if Trueborn were good shooters, but even there it boils down to Blasterborn in Venoms. But if I need anti-MEQ/TEQ I take a Voidraven for basically the same price (Dark Scythes are basically better 4 Blasters).

Shredders are a joke and worse than Splinter fire.
And for heavy weapons, your only effective choice is Scourges... which are inferior to our Heavy Support choices in terms of heavy shooting.

Oh, and don't let me start to rant about Heat Lances... those overpriced piles of $"!&.

Indeed, we live in dark times.

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Mppqlmd
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PostSubject: Re: rant about GW and play testers    Sat Jul 29 2017, 16:21

@The Strange Dark One wrote:

And for heavy weapons, your only effective choice is Scourges... which are inferior to our Heavy Support choices in terms of heavy shooting.
Let's disagree on this one. I'm a big fan of 4 lances scourges. +1 DL in exchange of less mobility (or -1 to hit on the move) and less tankiness is fine for me.
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Indeed, we live in dark times.
In terms of power, Dark Eldars are really fine in 8th edition. It's the flavor that's lacking IMHO.
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Mppqlmd
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PostSubject: Re: rant about GW and play testers    Sat Jul 29 2017, 16:22

Edit : again with this quote button being next to the edit one...
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CptMetal
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PostSubject: Re: rant about GW and play testers    Sat Jul 29 2017, 17:06

In dark times? We are better off than ever before! And that only with an index not a full codex.

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Mppqlmd
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PostSubject: Re: rant about GW and play testers    Sat Jul 29 2017, 17:09

I wouldn't say ever. But we are certainly better than what we were in 6th and 7th.

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Jimsolo
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PostSubject: Re: rant about GW and play testers    Sat Jul 29 2017, 17:35

I dunno about that. We were sitting pretty sweet during sixth. Our 5e codex weathered 6e fairly well.

The last codex, tho...7e was our turn in the pickle barrel.
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Mppqlmd
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PostSubject: Re: rant about GW and play testers    Sat Jul 29 2017, 18:29

@Jimsolo wrote:
I dunno about that.  We were sitting pretty sweet during sixth.  Our 5e codex weathered 6e fairly well.

The last codex, tho...7e was our turn in the pickle barrel.
Darklight was already pretty bad in 6th, but we had wyches spamming haywire grenades. I wasn't interested in DE in 5th, so i can't tell ^^
8th edition may not be perfect for us, and a lot of our units are not that interesting, but darklight is finally what it's supposed to be, and that's awesome.
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Jimsolo
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PostSubject: Re: rant about GW and play testers    Sat Jul 29 2017, 18:43

When we still had our 5e codex in 6th, we had Baronstars, which were pretty hot. We could get rerollable 2++ saves. Even on our own, the Baron and the Duke were really nice. Gunboats were still viable, too, which was definitely not the case in 7th.

PfP was, arguably, a little worse. But I think the army was in a much better position during that time period than under the comparative oppression of the codex that followed.
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Mppqlmd
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PostSubject: Re: rant about GW and play testers    Sat Jul 29 2017, 18:48

Well, i have to agree with that Smile 7th edition really was the bottom for us, except maybe for the reaver spam/the goodness of Haywire scourges.
But so far 8th edition has been kinda good for us, and i'm hoping it continues to be when the codex drops Smile

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|Meavar
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PostSubject: Re: rant about GW and play testers    Sat Jul 29 2017, 19:42

I do not think the major problem is wether our army is better or worse.

We can still put some quite good units on the table, and I would not call us weak at all. The problem is that we lost a bunch of alpha strike options, but our army is still based mostly on alpha strike. And I feel we are (again) shoehorned into having a lot of vehicles just as a delivery system. And those became a lot better for kabalites (the pure survivability gives us some leeway even if they shoot worse and became way more expensive). But for melee options they became a lot worse.
So I find that our melee options are great against some armies (because we are still faster then most) but against more mobile shooting armies or just massed ranks of guns our melee options just bite the dust, because they can kill us before we kill them (either because we cannot reach them or because we cannot kill them fast enough even if we are fighting on our terms). Then again it is a very fragile balance, since we are and often will be an glass hammer that has the potential to table opponents or get tabled and this makes the balance very hard.

I think having an effective army is not the same as having an effective army. In 7th edition you could say tyranids were actually quite a good army : Tyranid Flyrants spam was very effective. Many other tyranids let alone an tyranid army with a "balanced" (i.e. expected few heavy and HQ some elite and fast attack, mostly troops) army composition was hopeless, and some units were losing/winning to wyches for worst unit in the game.


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The Shredder
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PostSubject: Re: rant about GW and play testers    Sat Jul 29 2017, 19:46

@Mppqlmd wrote:
In terms of power, Dark Eldars are really fine in 8th edition. It's the flavor that's lacking IMHO.

Yeah, I really hope that our codex fixes this. Unfortunately, I remember having the same hope when 7th dropped. Neutral

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Groan
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PostSubject: Re: rant about GW and play testers    Sat Jul 29 2017, 22:00

Just out of curiosity, when was the last time new Dark Eldar units were released, and what were they?
Would it be reasonable to expect some new content in the new codex?
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Jimsolo
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PostSubject: Re: rant about GW and play testers    Sat Jul 29 2017, 22:06

When the fifth edition codex came out, I believe. To my knowledge, there's never been a new Dark Eldar unit released since I started playing the army. (Rules wise--we got a model for our Voidraven relatively recently.)
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Mppqlmd
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PostSubject: Re: rant about GW and play testers    Sat Jul 29 2017, 22:09

We might get new models (plastic kits for beasts, new HQs, maybe HQs on bikes/skyboard, stuff like that), but i doubt GW has any intention of giving us new codex entries.
But who knows ^^

The fact that we got the Gang of Commorragh box already amazed me. It almost looked like they cared about the 0.1% of people playing DE.
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Groan
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PostSubject: Re: rant about GW and play testers    Sat Jul 29 2017, 22:57

@Mppqlmd wrote:


The fact that we got the Gang of Commorragh box already amazed me. It almost looked like they cared about the 0.1% of people playing DE.

I think it was more the case of trying to shift unpopular stock Very Happy

I would love to see some new content. Even if it just a HQ on a skyboard.
Ideally I would like to see a hover sled pulled by updated female slave models.
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Mppqlmd
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PostSubject: Re: rant about GW and play testers    Sat Jul 29 2017, 23:16

@Groan wrote:

Ideally I would like to see a hover sled pulled by updated female slave models.  
You should work at the GW design team. That idea sounds more fun than anything they have come up with in the past decade ^^
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Jimsolo
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PostSubject: Re: rant about GW and play testers    Sat Jul 29 2017, 23:21

Fun loving space pirate whackiness hasn't really been their stock-in-trade these days. Seems like since the big pivot, they've been leaning on the Grimdark pedal pretty hard.
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CptMetal
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PostSubject: Re: rant about GW and play testers    Sat Jul 29 2017, 23:23

So maybe a sled pulled by grotesques?

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PostSubject: Re: rant about GW and play testers    Sun Jul 30 2017, 01:47

@Jimsolo wrote:
Fun loving space pirate whackiness hasn't really been their stock-in-trade these days.  Seems like since the big pivot, they've been leaning on the Grimdark pedal pretty hard.

And it's a real shame, too, because I love space pirate whackiness.

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|Meavar
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PostSubject: Re: rant about GW and play testers    Sun Jul 30 2017, 06:53

Problem with new dark eldar models. Our mainstray models (kabalites venoms, wyches, hellions, scourges even incubi and mandrakes if you ignore the fact that they are more brittle then sandstone) are all really really nice models. so for the manjority we do not need new models that much even if they are old.
What we need is a bunch of plastics for the now overpriced crapcast miniatures and maybe a few HQ.

If they mess with the looks of our basic troops they might lose favour as well.
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PostSubject: Re: rant about GW and play testers    Sun Jul 30 2017, 07:02

They'll likely do what they did with Wracks. That is, make plastic variants that are similar to the resins but with more options.

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The Shredder
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PostSubject: Re: rant about GW and play testers    Sun Jul 30 2017, 09:34

@TeenageAngst wrote:
@Jimsolo wrote:
Fun loving space pirate whackiness hasn't really been their stock-in-trade these days.  Seems like since the big pivot, they've been leaning on the Grimdark pedal pretty hard.

And it's a real shame, too, because I love space pirate whackiness.

I think the whakiness era ended when they stopped making these guys:

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Jim_the_archon
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PostSubject: Re: rant about GW and play testers    Sun Jul 30 2017, 09:42

Thank god, that looks awful
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Mppqlmd
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PostSubject: Re: rant about GW and play testers    Sun Jul 30 2017, 09:52

@Jim_the_archon wrote:
Thank god, that looks awful

That kind of craziness is what allowed bloodbowl to exist. Show some respect ^^
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