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Azdrubael
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PostSubject: Re: rant about GW and play testers    16/6/2017, 09:17

Quote :
- Have you ever tried duct-taping two assault rifles onto a motorcycle and then firing them with perfect accuracy at targets to your sides or rear, whilst riding at full throttle? Razz

Being an avid motorcycle rider and tourer i still didnt managed to understand where do they have the throttle on the 40k bikes )))) One of White Scars deathwatch stories author even went as far as mention they have manual transmission. Right now the most likely explanation of bike control in 40k is that they have mind-link to motorcycle. Cause otherwise they simple lack enough controls to operate one.

Even if they have only 2 controls, presumably pedals, throttle and gas that doesnt provide for any sort of accurate riding, where you can manage to !shoot! while riding and even get to a close combat.

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Jim_the_archon
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PostSubject: Re: rant about GW and play testers    16/6/2017, 13:03

Reminds me of something I read from one of the team years ago "40k isn't scifi it's fantasy in space, there's no science in 40k"
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4thDimensionWizard
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PostSubject: Re: rant about GW and play testers    16/6/2017, 18:14

Yeah, it's all pretend. Now they want us to pretend 8th edition has good rules. GW stores even made it a store rule, apparently.

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TeenageAngst
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PostSubject: Re: rant about GW and play testers    Yesterday at 07:35

I gotta get this off my chest so if you don't wanna read another rant you can just skip this one. This subject reminded me of the most common argument trotted out against the "whiners"; that the entire game is just make-believe plastic tiny space men and none of it really matters and we all need to stop caring so much. The "it's all pretend" argument is the stupidest one possible.

Look, every game is just pretend. Every single one. It could be a video game, a tabletop game, D&D, card games, it's all a made-up time waster done entirely for entertainment purposes. If someone were to approach every single game they played as "it's just pretend, I just want a game, any game, to fill in so many hours a week" they would settle into the best quality game they could play for the most reasonable cost, and GW would never make a sale to them. In the realm of "it's just a game" GW has the worst possible business model, selling vastly overpriced minis for a game that limps and lurches compared to refined systems like Malifaux and Infinity.

The appeal of 40k comes entirely from 3 sources: the lore, the game, and the models. The models are overpriced and the game is sluggish, which leaves the lore. 40k has some of the best freaking lore of any sci-fi franchise. It's deep, it's intricate, it's interesting, you could lose entire days to reading wiki pages dedicated to 40k lore. Being interested in that lore is why having those sluggish rules made sense, it was a tie in, a verisimilitude between what happens in the stories and what happens on the tabletop. Yes, they could be abused, but that too opened up (what was to me anyway) an interesting strategic element. The models tied into it too. You read about hedonistic Dark Eldars, so you try your hand at building and painting them. Then you learn from that process and make some more that look even cooler. Then you kitbash some custom ones. And every step along the way there's usually a story or a narrative hook leading you to create the next customized addition to your army.

If everyone approached it as "it's just pretend and doesn't matter" then we wouldn't have named Archons or war trophies or written backgrounds. No one would complain about people playing hyper-competitive lists because they're just playing the game well. There would be no "fluff" players or themed lists at all.

So yes, it is all pretend, but people care because caring is what adds enjoyment to the hobby. And when things like sudden shifts in lore happen that mess up the narratives people have for their army, they're going to be upset because that was where they derived their enjoyment. When sudden changes in rules happen that take away those connections between the lore and the game and replace it with simplified tactics and same-y units, it's going to lose the appeal of having that cool tie-in. This says nothing of course of the financial investment people have in their hobby, where the sunk cost fallacy is alive and well.

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Count Adhemar
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PostSubject: Re: rant about GW and play testers    Yesterday at 09:26

@TeenageAngst wrote:
The appeal of 40k comes entirely from 3 sources: the lore, the game, and the models. The models are overpriced and the game is sluggish, which leaves the lore.

In your opinion. Which is fine, and you're perfectly entitled to it. But others can and do disagree and, outside of this thread, it's getting a little tiresome to hear you banging on and on and on and on about it.

I also find it somewhat confusing that someone who professes to hate this game so much has gone out and bought hundreds of dollars worth of models (ie your famous flock of flocks) in order to play it.

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Massaen
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PostSubject: Re: rant about GW and play testers    Yesterday at 09:38

@Count Adhemar wrote:
In your opinion. Which is fine, and you're perfectly entitled to it. But others can and do disagree and, outside of this thread, it's getting a little tiresome to hear you banging on and on and on and on about it.

I also find it somewhat confusing that someone who professes to hate this game so much has gone out and bought hundreds of dollars worth of models (ie your famous flock of flocks) in order to play it.

Where is that like button we keep asking for lol!

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|Meavar
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PostSubject: Re: rant about GW and play testers    Yesterday at 10:57

I completely disagree with teenageangst but I think he actually keeps most rants quite nicely in this thread. Ok so in a first game thread he also posted quite a bit of negative comments, but those were either 1 sentence comments except for 1 rant which was an awnser to someone litterely asking why he did not like it. So while I disagree with Teenageangst (to me 8th feels better then 7 even if not everything is perfect and the indexes feel rushed).
I think he actually does quite a good job of keeping his negativety in check. Since it is clear he invest quite some time and money in the hobby and then it can be really frustrating if a game you love is supposed to become better and it turns out everything which was good for you got scrapped. Fortunately it seems that most of the people in his area agree with him so he should not have to much problems with finding opponents for 7th. While where I am most people gladly went to 8th.
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TeenageAngst
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PostSubject: Re: rant about GW and play testers    Yesterday at 18:36

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In your opinion. Which is fine, and you're perfectly entitled to it. But others can and do disagree and, outside of this thread, it's getting a little tiresome to hear you banging on and on and on and on about it.

I keep most of it in this thread, as I was told to, unless people explicitly ask me to give my reasons for not liking 8th. Also what's good for the goose is good for the gander, I'm allowed to not like things and I'm getting tired of the constant drumbeat of "stay positive about 8th" going on outside this topic. If it was so great then you wouldn't have a problem with people complaining. I don't care if you like it, but everyone seems to care that I don't. Double standards galore. You want an echo chamber? Cause that's how you get one.

Quote :

I also find it somewhat confusing that someone who professes to hate this game so much has gone out and bought hundreds of dollars worth of models (ie your famous flock of flocks) in order to play it.

I have not spent one thin dime on the hobby since 8th came out.

Also, the trouble is, unlike D&D 3.5 which is and will forever be used, 7e is completely replaced by 8th for all intents and purposes. Even wizards of the coast, the hollow shell of corporate greed that they are, released 2e and 3.5e books again. I could play AD&D 2nd edition today by walking into a bookstore and buying the rulebooks off the shelf. No such luck for 40k, we will never see those books ever again.

Eventually I will have to play 8th almost exclusively and it's going to suck.

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CptMetal
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PostSubject: Re: rant about GW and play testers    Yesterday at 18:50

You know that both of us really clash and disagree but I have to admit, you really keep the rant inside this thread. Thank you for that.


It's not about creating an echo chamber because by now everyone knows these different mechanics and the arguments about it.
It's simply about not adding something new and valuable to discussions where we work together for the glory of the true kin.
Wink

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TeenageAngst
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PostSubject: Re: rant about GW and play testers    Yesterday at 19:42

I already gave us the "I win" button. Razorwing flocks in high numbers will shut down anyone who isn't packing a serious list and if properly constructed and run, a DE flock list can win against even other spam lists. This is the equivalent of "bring scatbikes" this edition.

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Jim_the_archon
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PostSubject: Re: rant about GW and play testers    Yesterday at 20:12

Boring to assemble and paint so many of the same thing though
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TeenageAngst
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PostSubject: Re: rant about GW and play testers    Yesterday at 22:37

It wouldn't be 8th edition if every single aspect wasn't as dull as safety scissors.

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