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 Haywire blasters in 8th

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Amornar
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PostSubject: Re: Haywire blasters in 8th   Thu Jun 08 2017, 17:36

Agreed. I started typing a response about not trying to focus on using heat lances for "character" killing but for pure T5 multi wound unit hunting. I then was going to list a few good targets until I realized that everything T5 either has invul saves or was actually T6 or higher. I still think reavers are a better platform for heat lances but due to their cost and very limited ideal targets to the point wheee I couldn't even find enough evidence to make a point on the forums is bad. Until a change drops the points or messing with stats I don't foresee using heat lances...or haywire blasters for that matter when the dark lance just has more power, great damage and the best range. I think Scourge are best being dropped in a back corner, maybe on an objective and making a huge bubble of high str, high damage death.
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CptMetal
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PostSubject: Re: Haywire blasters in 8th   Thu Jun 08 2017, 18:10

Damn...
Haywire AND Heatlances are out. So I need to rip off those guns from my scourges and build Dark Lances.
Sigh

But 5 dudes with 4 Lances is kind of vulnerable, don´t you think?

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Amornar
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PostSubject: Re: Haywire blasters in 8th   Thu Jun 08 2017, 18:17

Dropping into cover they will have a 3+ save which is marine level defense not counting the T3 but that is just reality of all eldar units. 6+ Invul save is extra defense. Certainly not vehicle level defense but I think positioning will be key with using that 36 inch range and deep strike to secure a defensible spot they can snipe from. Might even be a good option to go for line breaker if the table and your opponents deployement allows it.
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SocarHarbringer
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PostSubject: Re: Haywire blasters in 8th   Thu Jun 08 2017, 18:20

I think Haywire will be good against necron quantum shielding because it does less wounds. That is probably the only real use for them.
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Logan Frost
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PostSubject: Re: Haywire blasters in 8th   Thu Jun 08 2017, 18:29

@Amornar wrote:
Dropping into cover they will have a 3+ save which is marine level defense not counting the T3 but that is just reality of all eldar units. 6+ Invul save is extra defense. Certainly not vehicle level defense but I think positioning will be key with using that 36 inch range and deep strike to secure a defensible spot they can snipe from. Might even be a good option to go for line breaker if the table and your opponents deployement allows it.

This.

@SocarHarbringer wrote:
I think Haywire will be good against necron quantum shielding because it does less wounds. That is probably the only real use for them.

Blaster are better against quantumshielding, wounds on a 3+, ignores armour and d3 damage easily ignores their ability.
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Jim_the_archon
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PostSubject: Re: Haywire blasters in 8th   Thu Jun 08 2017, 19:30

To be honest with the heat lances I was thinking more terminators than characters. Since terminators are 2 wounds now dropping in and shooting them with something that wounds them on a 3+, they only get their invuln save against that does multiple damage sounds like s better option than trying to wear them down with poison and it frees up your dark lances to focus vehicles.
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Logan Frost
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PostSubject: Re: Haywire blasters in 8th   Thu Jun 08 2017, 19:37

Against termies blasters, plastic pistols, dark lances and dissis are all better and more cost effective.
The only target for HL are big multi wounds targets (6 or more) with 5 toughness, 6 max.. Against anything else there is something better.
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Frederick Vael
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PostSubject: Re: Haywire blasters in 8th   Fri Jun 09 2017, 23:59

IMO heat lances aren't worth it.

The real deal with them is the roll-2-choose-1 ability, which can't be actually use because of the +9UM rule, as they won't be able to use it on a later turn: they either use it the turn they deploy, or they don't. This is because you won't walk (the enemy won't get close to them, to be precise), and if you even plan on doing so, they are exposed, therefore obliterated. And the biggest problem? They are more expensive than dark lances.

Even against big units, dark lances are better. The -1 to hit is offset by the +1 to wound that they get by virtue of the S8 versus S6. Yeah, they get a better deal against T5, but I don't think DE have a problem with T5 because of shard-guns.

And again, even in that situation, being able to shoot from an extra 18UM of distance is huge on T3 units. As someone else pointed out, plant them on cover and throw pain onto the enemy. And if you stay still (which you'll be able being 36UM away), your dark lances won't have -1 to hit.

5 Scourges with 4 DarkLances cost 136 points and dish out 4'66 wounds per round against T7 to 5 while moving, 6,22 while stationary, and 7,77 wounds while stationary against T4 or less. Haywire blaster, even against vehicles, can't even come close to this (2,22 wounds, 32 points less). Wound wise, heat lances are mostly the same (worse against tanks), more expensive, and more fragile (because of range). Not worth it in any case. The extra AP means nothing.
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sekac
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PostSubject: Re: Haywire blasters in 8th   Sat Jun 10 2017, 00:21

It costs 150.
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FuelDrop
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PostSubject: Re: Haywire blasters in 8th   Fri Jun 16 2017, 10:42

Heat lance scourges are going to be my centurion hunters/meganob hunters. Super heavy multi wound infantry killers. Going to ditch Haywire, cannot field enough to be useful and when a land raider turns up 1-2 mortal wounds a turn isn't even going to register.
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