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ShamPow1999
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PostSubject: Coven Units in 8th   Fri Jun 02 2017, 05:11

Looking over the rules and points for the Haemonculi Covens from the leak, it seems that the aura buff the Haemonculi and Uriel provide can be used to make a really survivable force.

Having a units of Wracks, Grotesques, and Taloi situated behind a group of Haemonculi or Chronos Pain Engines provides an opportunity to field a resilient and deadly close combat force. T6 Wracks, T7 Grotesques, T8 Taloi, rerolling 1s to wound in close combat sounds playable and would be fun to play.

To make this happen however, you would need to bunch several units close together and employ a larger detachment to gain access to more HQs for the toughness bonus. Seeing as all the Haemonculus Covens have a move of 7"-8", it may even be possible to forgo their transports, although I'm not too sure if that's feasible (you'd also lose the aura buff I believe).

Just an idea I had looking at the leak. Is it playable or total garbage? Do you think Dark Eldar might be more likely to have units on foot compared to last edition? Food for thought.
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KiloFiX
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PostSubject: Re: Coven Units in 8th   Fri Jun 02 2017, 05:40

I don't think Haemy's and Urien's Master of Pain Stack since the ability has the same name and it says "one or more models" give +1 Tough, not every model.
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ShamPow1999
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PostSubject: Re: Coven Units in 8th   Fri Jun 02 2017, 05:43

@KiloFiX wrote:
I don't think Haemy's and Urien's Master of Pain Stack since the ability has the same name and it says "one or more models" give +1 Tough, not every model.

Yes, you're right! Sorry about that got excited for no reason!
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Jimsolo
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PostSubject: Re: Coven Units in 8th   Fri Jun 02 2017, 18:06

T5 Wracks still seem like a huge bennie, though. I'm excited about it.
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TeenageAngst
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PostSubject: Re: Coven Units in 8th   Fri Jun 02 2017, 18:48

Toughness isn't a useful stat anymore.

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Sess
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PostSubject: Re: Coven Units in 8th   Fri Jun 02 2017, 19:38

@TeenageAngst wrote:
Toughness isn't a useful stat anymore.

It still seems useful against small arms fire. Toughness 6 and 7 probably are a lot less useful now but toughness 5 still seems like a useful breakpoint for making bolters wound on 5+.
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The Strange Dark One
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PostSubject: Re: Coven Units in 8th   Fri Jun 02 2017, 21:33

@Sess wrote:
@TeenageAngst wrote:
Toughness isn't a useful stat anymore.

It still seems useful against small arms fire. Toughness 6 and 7 probably are a lot less useful now but toughness 5 still seems like a useful breakpoint for making bolters wound on 5+.

I agree. T5 is actually a big deal.
And it are not only bolters, it are a lot of weapons that are Str 4.
Heck, even a Lascannon only has a needs a 3+.

I think Wracks are in, Grotesques are out. T6 does not provide a huge benefit over T5. What's even more important is that D3 and D6 shots are completely wasted on Wracks, while they can completely shred Grotesques to pieces.

Even Liquifiers might be worth it now since Str 3 isn't as bad anymore. Or just go with a trusty old Ossefactor.

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amishprn86
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PostSubject: Re: Coven Units in 8th   Fri Jun 02 2017, 22:32

The problem with Wracks are they dont really get good weapons and dont do good damage, Grots/Talos are tho really good.

I think Talos are largely improved outside of CTC.

Doing 2D for each hit is huge. You get 5 attacks and on with PfP turn 3 you need 2+ to hit.

For fun i am going to run 1 with 2 TL Flamers XD its so not worth but will be fun.

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Hen Tai, the tentacle guy
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PostSubject: Re: Coven Units in 8th   Fri Jun 02 2017, 22:52

Wracks and haemys are our only access to sniper rifles. Good way to remove buffs from enemy squads, before charging in with cc.

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amishprn86
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PostSubject: Re: Coven Units in 8th   Fri Jun 02 2017, 23:21

@Hen Tai, the tentacle guy wrote:
Wracks and haemys are our only access to sniper rifles. Good way to remove buffs from enemy squads, before charging in with cc.

Dont have rules in front of me, but i thought it was you cant target IC unless they are outside of 6" OR the closest.

Can anyone confirm this?

Either way the Charatcers we went again 1-2 sniper rifles wouldnt kill them even over 5 turns of them just shooting at that character, you need a full unit of 5 rifles to make any type of dent. We just dont have that ability to do that.

Unless you take 5 units of wracks but then you are loosing firepower in general just to kill a character, over 2-3 turns.

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Hen Tai, the tentacle guy
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PostSubject: Re: Coven Units in 8th   Fri Jun 02 2017, 23:31

Don't need to kill them. If I weaken them and annoy my opponent with them, I can hopefully offset his movement, and make him second guess his advance.

Edit. maybe better tactic for harlequins an Death jesters.

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The Red King
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PostSubject: Re: Coven Units in 8th   Fri Jun 02 2017, 23:49

Talos can only swap 1 weapon for a liq gun.

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PostSubject: Re: Coven Units in 8th   Fri Jun 02 2017, 23:51

Oh it is 1, just dbl check but still might be fun to use geek

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PostSubject: Re: Coven Units in 8th   Fri Jun 02 2017, 23:56

@Sess wrote:
@TeenageAngst wrote:
Toughness isn't a useful stat anymore.

It still seems useful against small arms fire. Toughness 6 and 7 probably are a lot less useful now but toughness 5 still seems like a useful breakpoint for making bolters wound on 5+.

If it was good it wouldn't be handed out by Haemonculi like candy.

It's useless, don't go chasing Toughness buffs.

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PostSubject: Re: Coven Units in 8th   Fri Jun 02 2017, 23:58

Haemonculus are the new best CC character. They have 5 toughness, 5 attacks that wound on a 4+ with -2ap 2dmg(electrocorrosive whip). Wracks are going to be tough 5, so basically a majority of weapons only wound them on 5s. They also have access to ossefactors, which can target independently and wound on a 2+. They have a 5+ invul and a 6+ super fnp. Wracks are going to be pretty good.
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PostSubject: Re: Coven Units in 8th   Sat Jun 03 2017, 00:18

Yeah i want to try a Haemi really badly, and Urien as well.

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PostSubject: Re: Coven Units in 8th   Sat Jun 03 2017, 00:20

@amishprn86 wrote:
Yeah i want to try a Haemi really badly, and Urien as well.

Urien doesn't do too much dmg, but he does have a rerollable 4++, so he saves 75% of incoming fire.
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PostSubject: Re: Coven Units in 8th   Sat Jun 03 2017, 00:26

@organicpesticide wrote:
@amishprn86 wrote:
Yeah i want to try a Haemi really badly, and Urien as well.

Urien doesn't do too much dmg, but he does have a rerollable 4++, so he saves 75% of incoming fire.

Yep i wanted to test him more so as a Tank for am Warlord.

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PostSubject: Re: Coven Units in 8th   Sat Jun 03 2017, 01:22

@amishprn86 wrote:
Dont have rules in front of me, but i thought it was you cant target IC unless they are outside of 6" OR the closest.

There are some abilities that over ride this:
Death Jesters have the ability called Deadly Hunter: "This model may target a Character even if it is not the closest enemy unit."

While some weapons contain the ability:
Hexrifle: "This weapon may target a Character even if it is not the closest enemy unit."

Ranger Long Rifle: "This weapon may target a Character even if it is not the closest enemy unit."

Ect.
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PostSubject: Re: Coven Units in 8th   Sat Jun 03 2017, 01:48

Right i know that, but i thought it basically if the IC isnt the closest and is within 6" of another unit then you cant target it without special rules.


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PostSubject: Re: Coven Units in 8th   Sat Jun 03 2017, 01:58

Oh sorry, the rule says: "A CHARACTER can only be chosen as a target in the Shooting phase if they are the closest visible enemy unit to the model that is shooting. This does not apply to CHARACTERS with a Wound characteristic of 10 or more, due to the sheer size."

Edit: I think I remember reading something like the 6" for the Genestealer Cult HQs, I only have images of the Xenos 1 book so I can't check.


Last edited by CurstAlchemist on Sat Jun 03 2017, 02:06; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: Coven Units in 8th   Sat Jun 03 2017, 02:05

@amishprn86 wrote:
Right i know that, but i thought it basically if the IC isnt the closest and is within 6" of another unit then you cant target it without special rules.

Yes, and as was pointed out those special rules tend to be on Sniper weapons/units.

I find myself rather disappointed with the Talos, 6 attacks is nice but loosing that S7 and virtually no AP means that it won't be much good for hunting MC's anymore. Ichor Injector is downright useless now.
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PostSubject: Re: Coven Units in 8th   Sat Jun 03 2017, 02:08

@CurstAlchemist wrote:
Oh sorry, the rule says: "A CHARACTER can only be chosen as a target in the Shooting phase if they are the closest visible enemy unit to the model that is shooting. This does not apply to CHARACTERS with a Wound characteristic of 10 or more, due to the sheer size."

Edit: I think I remember reading something like the 6" for the Genestealer Cult HQs, I only have images of the Xenos 1 book so I can't check.

Yeah this, so i was trying to point out that we dont even need sniper. with our 14-16" movements and advancements if we really wanted too we could get close enough to the characters.

Some character like Pain Boys will be important to ill as soon as you can but those type of character will be in transports for sure. Same for Harlequins Troupe Master, they will be in a transport until its time to charge.

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PostSubject: Re: Coven Units in 8th   Sat Jun 03 2017, 04:16

@TeenageAngst wrote:
@Sess wrote:
@TeenageAngst wrote:
Toughness isn't a useful stat anymore.

It still seems useful against small arms fire. Toughness 6 and 7 probably are a lot less useful now but toughness 5 still seems like a useful breakpoint for making bolters wound on 5+.

If it was good it wouldn't be handed out by Haemonculi like candy.

It's useless, don't go chasing Toughness buffs.

That's a circular argument, and demonstrably false. The baseline weapon for most armies is S4. Jumping from T4 to T5 means line infantry will wound you 1/3 of the time instead of 1/2 the time (per hit).

That's a huge boost. T5 to T6 is often going to be less impressive, but will still be useful on occasion.
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PostSubject: Re: Coven Units in 8th   Sun Jun 04 2017, 19:52

Question about the Ichor Injector

Wounds of a 6 cause d3 mortal wounds in addition to the normal wound. You can re-roll wound rolls with this weapon.

So am I reading that I can re-roll a successful wound? Say I wound on a 5, I can then re-roll that 5 in hopes of getting a 6 on the second roll? The weapon doesn't specify re-roll failed wounds, just says re-roll wounds, giving the weapon a slightly better than 1/3 chance of doing d3 mortal wounds.

Originally though the weapon was terrible, if this is true than slightly less so.
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