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 New Haemonculi

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Barrywise
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PostSubject: New Haemonculi   Fri Jun 02 2017, 02:33

Three things I'd like to discuss. Cause I have the feeling we'll see a lot more of them out and about soon.

1. Can Haemonculi buff up each other? The RAW make it sound like the haemonculi doesn't give +1 toughness to himself, but if you have a second one on the field maybe?

2. For loadouts, since it has multiple arms and attacks, similar to Lelith, are we able to give him scissor hands for a +1 attack, Venom blade for 2+ to wound, and an Agonizer for some delicious AP-2? all for the price of 17 points? Then give him a liquifier for 13, to get him up to 105 overall?

3. Does Urien Rakarth get to reroll his feel no pain roll too?

4. I can't find the cost value for casket of Flensing and Crucible of Malediction, are they free?
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|Meavar
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PostSubject: Re: New Haemonculi   Fri Jun 02 2017, 06:22

1 (I think yes)
2 no, you must replace a melee weapon, you only have tools of torment so only 1 melee weapon for the heam
3 not sure, I don't think it is a save, so I give a tentative no
4 crucible of malediction is listed both under wargear and as an ability, so it is a bit strange, I would say free till we find the price.
Casket of flensing is for urien only, and his cost is including his wargear, thus also including his casket. So this is free.
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Barrywise
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PostSubject: Re: New Haemonculi   Fri Jun 02 2017, 06:51

1. Someone said on another forum thinks that since the model is within 6" of itself, it buffs itself. I'm skeptical.

2. It says it in the wargear box. missed that the first time. Thank you!

3+4. Sounds good.

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Hellstrom
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PostSubject: Re: New Haemonculi   Fri Jun 02 2017, 09:12

It does buff itself.  Page 179 BrB.  Aura Abilities (bottom right corner).  A model with an aura is always with range of the effect.


You can't stack Haemy +1 Toughness. "Add 1 to Toughness of friendly units with 6" of one or more models with this ability." Under the Haemy description.
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Barrywise
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PostSubject: Re: New Haemonculi   Fri Jun 02 2017, 10:54

ohhh ok, thank you kindly! and yeah I wasn't looking to stack them, just making sure the Haemy wasn't just T4

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dumpeal
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PostSubject: Re: New Haemonculi   Fri Jun 02 2017, 17:09

The master of pain of Urien seems to only target "prophet of flesh" and not "haemonculus coven" unit. Does he only buff other haemy??

It would be weird that Urien is less potent than all others Haemy.
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Barrywise
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PostSubject: Re: New Haemonculi   Fri Jun 02 2017, 17:44

So in the keywords section, it states that Kabal, Wych Cult and Covens are just generic terms. You can change any of the generic to a specific, before the game starts. So Grotesques are of the coven faction but you can make them from the Prophets of Flesh subfaction before the game starts.

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Jimsolo
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PostSubject: Re: New Haemonculi   Fri Jun 02 2017, 18:05

Any of the factions in brackets <FACTION> are generic ones. You're supposed to select before the game which subfaction they are. So if it says <Space Marine Chapter> you're supposed to pick a specific chapter for them to belong to, even if it has no further game effect.

For us, Lelith and Rakarth each belong to a specific subfaction, so they are always 'that' faction.
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Count Adhemar
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PostSubject: Re: New Haemonculi   Fri Jun 02 2017, 23:07

It's a strange move from GW as they've been all about "play whatever you want" for ages now but then they introduce rules that say you can only play special characters in their specific forces. Can't even do 'counts as'!

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Jimsolo
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PostSubject: Re: New Haemonculi   Sat Jun 03 2017, 04:11

Well, there's nothing stopping you from doing 'Counts as.' AFAIK, there's only one Wych Cult special character and only one Covens special character, so you can still run them in ANY cult or coven force and call it whatever you like.

It'd only be an issue with armies that actually have multiple sub-factions (like CSM or SM) but that was the direction they were headed in anyway.
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TheBaconPope
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PostSubject: Re: New Haemonculi   Sat Jun 03 2017, 04:27

I understand they likely want to limit overlapping buffs and potential character deathstars, but this just seems a little over the top. Fluff is full of armies cooperating, is it really THAT improbable that several regiments/craftworlds/chapters/whathaveyou would team up against a mutual foe? It's kinda sad how in two codex updates, we go from the author explicitly telling us it's A-okay to bring special characters from different Kabals, Cults, and Covens (Thank you Phil Kelly), to suddenly having the different subfactions be incapable of working together.

Hey, on the bright side, being cut down to three special characters means it probably won't come up much, right?

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Jimsolo
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PostSubject: Re: New Haemonculi   Sat Jun 03 2017, 05:28

The subfactions can still work together. Where are you seeing that they can't?
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TheBaconPope
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PostSubject: Re: New Haemonculi   Sat Jun 03 2017, 05:34

Quote :
The subfactions can still work together. Where are you seeing that they can't?

From what I understand, special characters with a specific subfaction can't be accompanied by a special character with a contrasting subfaction. For instance, you couldn't bring a character with the keyword Chapter <Ultramarines> in the same (Army or detachment, I can't remember which offhand) as a character with the keyword Chapter <Blood Angels>

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Barrywise
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PostSubject: Re: New Haemonculi   Sat Jun 03 2017, 06:02

Oh. That's what Teenage Angst was pissed off about, pray tell, where in the rules and leaks is that specifically?

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Hen Tai, the tentacle guy
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PostSubject: Re: New Haemonculi   Sat Jun 03 2017, 08:04

The limits on special character buffs is a necesary mechanic, as it prevents death stars, and kills the lore. If you show up with a menagerie of spacemarine chapter characters to buff a single unit, we are back to 7th.

You can still show up with all characters in an army, but you must keep them with their respective faction squads. A safer way to do this is to split factions specific characters in separate detachments, and keep each detachment a specific faction. (Faction=subfactions within say aeldari)

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Count Adhemar
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PostSubject: Re: New Haemonculi   Sat Jun 03 2017, 09:50

I was more thinking about the limit on say successor chapters of SM not being able to use the named characters from their codex.

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