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 Weakness of the prey races

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CptMetal
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PostSubject: Weakness of the prey races   Thu Jun 01 2017, 15:14

We´re talking about the True Kin so much and we are focussing and arguing if those changes are good or bad, that we are missing or goal:
Enslaving and dominating the galaxy.
So let´s discuss what changed for the prey races. What powers did they loose or gain? What can we exploit?

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Count Adhemar
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PostSubject: Re: Weakness of the prey races   Thu Jun 01 2017, 15:19

Big thing for me so far has been that CWE lost Windriders as troops and they are no longer quite as effective, due to having -1 to hit if they move.

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Hen Tai, the tentacle guy
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PostSubject: Re: Weakness of the prey races   Thu Jun 01 2017, 15:27

It seems that our enemies has lost their ability to intercept fliers when they arrive on scene, so air superiority seems a good way to influence a battle.

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Scrz
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PostSubject: Re: Weakness of the prey races   Thu Jun 01 2017, 20:12

It looks like the chapter tactic rules have been changed. Not sure what purpose it serves now other than making sure that chapter specific special characters do not buff units from other chapters. So no more ultramarine battle companies twin linking their bolters all game long?

The CWE space barbie doll has lost stomp and the gargantuan creature protection layer, and got a point hike.
Which reminds me: "Toe in cover" is gone. The wraith knight even has to be 50% obscured to get a cover save now. Can't wait to bring it down and yell "TIIIMBEEEER"

Monsters and tanks can't drive through houses. That change to the terrain rules coupled with the fact that you usually can't move over your own stuff and have to keep 1" away the enemy, gives us plenty of opportunity to create choke points and block things off.


Last edited by Scrz on Fri Jun 02 2017, 06:35; edited 1 time in total
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Talos
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PostSubject: Re: Weakness of the prey races   Fri Jun 02 2017, 04:21

As far as I have seen, we are the only army that can re-roll our charge and run dice-roll.

Grav centurions pays a lot of points for a rule that never come in to play when they facing the dark elder (they do extra damage to stuff with a 3+ save in their stats)

Disintegrator cannons will now melt all kind of bikes, as jink is gone.

Flamers is a lot less scary, as they won’t burn us do death inside our raiders anymore. And deep striking flamers have to land outside range.

Firing points are gone to. No longer can marines shoot weapons from the rhino hatch, they have to disembark to do so.
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BlackDeathstill
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PostSubject: Re: Weakness of the prey races   Fri Jun 02 2017, 05:31

Can it be?! We finally get a good army build again? Although still overwhelming to me, it sounds like the new is gonna be fun once we get used to the rules. I really like that I can bring my flyers again and not worry so much about them only getting one turn of play. Wyches and hellions look doable again, thank badness. Readers look good, I like that they didn't get hit hard, still good to use. Lelith, from reading, and succubus look very heavy again. It also looks like eternal warrior is gone, of course I haven't seen everything yet.

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Creeping Darkness
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PostSubject: Re: Weakness of the prey races   Fri Jun 02 2017, 06:55

Necron Croissants aren't quite as point and click as they used to be - units that are held back to be deployed through either a night scythe or monolith portal are slain if the portals are all destroyed before they can come on! Since disembarking is at the start of the movement phase, this means we'll get a turn to down any Night Scythes before the metal dudesmen inside can get out.
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Imateria
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PostSubject: Re: Weakness of the prey races   Fri Jun 02 2017, 12:35

BlackDeathstill wrote:
Can it be?! We finally get a good army build again? Although still overwhelming to me, it sounds like the new is gonna be fun once we get used to the rules. I really like that I can bring my flyers again and not worry so much about them only getting one turn of play. Wyches and hellions look doable again, thank badness. Readers look good, I like that they didn't get hit hard, still good to use. Lelith, from reading, and succubus look very heavy again. It also looks like eternal warrior is gone, of course I haven't seen everything yet.
The effect of Eternal Warrior is gone, it's now only special rule on Drazhar giving him a 5++. Of course, Instant Death is also gone so the old EW had no point to it in 8th either.

And it's really nice to see Drazhar not only gets a 40pt price drop but finally has an invuln.
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Hen Tai, the tentacle guy
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PostSubject: Re: Weakness of the prey races   Fri Jun 02 2017, 13:04

With expensive transports across the board, we have a buffet waiting for the voidraven bomber.

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CptMetal
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PostSubject: Re: Weakness of the prey races   Fri Jun 02 2017, 13:27

The voidraven? Why? The it´s just two lances doing D6 damage. And the blast thing is D3 shots but only does D3 wounds. Better take a ravager.

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Hen Tai, the tentacle guy
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PostSubject: Re: Weakness of the prey races   Fri Jun 02 2017, 13:29

IG likes huuuge infantry blobs, so does orks, necrons and nids. If they have blobs of 20 infantry or more, that is a lot of dice to throw at them, and will remove a chunk of them.

Edit. If lined up right, you can even shoot at other stuff with scythes or voidlances, after the bomb has dropped

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Demantiae
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PostSubject: Re: Weakness of the prey races   Fri Jun 02 2017, 13:35

Dark Lance is probably the best weapon for popping vehicles again. In terms of killing power, range, cost and availability it's great. And as almost all vehicles got a price hike they'll be fewer on the table and way more valuable, meaning DE may well be the kings of sniping tanks again.

When Raiders/Venoms blow they have a chance to cause mortal wounds to all units within 6". Shove them in your prey's face and ask them if they're feeling lucky. Park them next to Termie squads for extra fun and value.

You have to shoot the closest enemy unit now, that can be exploited all sorts of ways with all the vehicles DE run with. You could wall off a gunline with Raiders and move freely around the rest of the board.

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Count Adhemar
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PostSubject: Re: Weakness of the prey races   Fri Jun 02 2017, 13:51

Demantiae wrote:
You have to shoot the closest enemy unit now

You do?

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Hen Tai, the tentacle guy
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PostSubject: Re: Weakness of the prey races   Fri Jun 02 2017, 14:18

Only when you are thinking of shooting characters, I think.

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CurstAlchemist
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PostSubject: Re: Weakness of the prey races   Fri Jun 02 2017, 15:13

The only things you have to shoot the closest visible targets with are pistols when an enemy unit is within 1" of the unit. Smite also has a rule requiring you to target the closest visible target. Characters can only be shot with a weapon that doesn't exclude this, by it being the closest visible target when selected to be shot at. If I've missed something please tell me where I've missed it.
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PostSubject: Re: Weakness of the prey races   Fri Jun 02 2017, 19:16

If we get to charge from more than 8 inches away, the enemy can't use his flamer. I just thought of that!
And when we can Re-roll the charge distance, we are actually able to do that!

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Faitherun
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PostSubject: Re: Weakness of the prey races   Fri Jun 02 2017, 23:28

So... haven't looked but is there a rule stating that we can't move to within 1" of an enemy?

If not... move raider and their like up to within 1" but don't charge... then they can only shoot pistols...?
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wormfromhell
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PostSubject: Re: Weakness of the prey races   Sat Jun 03 2017, 03:31

Faitherun wrote:
So... haven't looked but is there a rule stating that we can't move to within 1" of an enemy?

If not... move raider and their like up to within 1" but don't charge... then they can only shoot pistols...?

you literally just said "you can't move within 1" of a model", and then go on to say "move raiders up to within 1"

But I see what you're saying. you could charge, that is the best strategy to make an enemy unit useless.


EDIT: sorry, misread your post. that was my inner arrogant betraythe..   dark eldar kicking in.

There is a rule that states that you can not move within 1" of a unit, unless you are charging.
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PostSubject: Re: Weakness of the prey races   Sat Jun 03 2017, 04:29

Quote :
that was my inner arrogant betraythe.. dark eldar kicking in.
Guess you rolled a 6 for your Warlord Trait Wink

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PostSubject: Re: Weakness of the prey races   Sat Jun 03 2017, 06:23

My brother is crying because If i can destroy his unit of Necrons they can not come back. So focus fire one unit at a time to get around reanimation protocols!
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PostSubject: Re: Weakness of the prey races   Sat Jun 03 2017, 08:20

Subsanity wrote:
My brother is crying because If i can destroy his unit of Necrons they can not come back. So focus fire one unit at a time to get around reanimation protocols!

Yeah this is how we used to kill crons back in the day. I'm also happy RP is now a 5+ not a 4+.
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Count Adhemar
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PostSubject: Re: Weakness of the prey races   Sat Jun 03 2017, 10:11

It will be 4+ in most cases as Crypteks boost it up

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PostSubject: Re: Weakness of the prey races   Sat Jun 03 2017, 12:24

Count Adhemar wrote:
It will be 4+ in most cases as Crypteks boost it up

So we kill those first lol

I really think that is the new role for our reavers. IC hunters 6 reavers with 2 heat lances, an agoniser and cluster caltrops (yup - hear me out on those)

Get to within 9" of the character and pop off a few shots. If you had to boost to get there, that is fine as we don't want to kill the IC yet...

Then get your charge off. Get a few wounds in etc, and remind your opponent all the while that if he chooses to fall back he is rolling two dice and on a 4+ taking Mortal wounds. We used to be the kings of psychological warfare.

Alternatively, Can see some ynnari scourges dropping in to snipe a character or two. One trick pony but might be worth it....
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CptMetal
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PostSubject: Re: Weakness of the prey races   Sat Jun 03 2017, 12:39

But what if the character is inside a unit? Can we target it?

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The Red King
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PostSubject: Re: Weakness of the prey races   Sat Jun 03 2017, 12:45

My recommendation is to treat illic as some kind of sec megara bounty hunter. Suitable conversion opportunities abound and with the current faction system you don't have to take any other eldar to bring him (though rangers might not hurt). He hits/ wounds on a 2+ with a -4 rend and d3 damage. He'll keep that IC's head down for sure.
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