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 Role shift between Reavers and Hellions 8th ed.

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Logan Frost
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PostSubject: Role shift between Reavers and Hellions 8th ed.   Thu Jun 01 2017, 15:13

Seems to me the new hard hitters in the arena are now the hellions, they have S4 weapons, move fast and do D2.
Our beloved jetbikes lost their HoW leaving them with the same strength as the hellions but with more wounds, more toughness, and more more movement.
Giving them the +1T drug they can be quite hard to kill.
May they be our new overwatch tanks?
Any though about it? Could it work? May they have a better role?
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Von Snabel
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PostSubject: Re: Role shift between Reavers and Hellions 8th ed.   Thu Jun 01 2017, 15:21

I don't think I want Reavers to tank anything since it's 30p a model. I think I will use them as Character Executers and maybe have them hunt some ligher Vehicles and Flyers. The Mortal Wound is still nice and with Heat Lance and blasters being Assault (Move 24" and shoot with 4+) feel like they might do some damage.
They're not really the main meat of the army anymore and I think using more Scurges and alot more Helions can be a neat replacement for some of the FA slots. Give the Helions +1S and have them run around with S5 attacks can be nice to wound about everything on 3+ against MEQ and +1 attack/T agains normal plebs. But havent done any math on it so no idea if it's acually a good idea. It's just my speculative 1/50 dollar
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Hen Tai, the tentacle guy
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PostSubject: Re: Role shift between Reavers and Hellions 8th ed.   Thu Jun 01 2017, 15:23

Giving them +1 strenght would make them more deadly. Does anyone know if keeping a succubus in a vehicle negates her influence bubble, or can she follow hellions or reavers in a venom and still buff them?

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Logan Frost
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PostSubject: Re: Role shift between Reavers and Hellions 8th ed.   Thu Jun 01 2017, 15:27

+1S would not benefit the reavers, bladevanes are 4S fixed.
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Von Snabel
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PostSubject: Re: Role shift between Reavers and Hellions 8th ed.   Thu Jun 01 2017, 15:36

@Logan Frost wrote:
+1S would not benefit the reavers, bladevanes are 4S fixed.

Aboslutley, I'd probably give the Reavers either +2 Move or +1T depening on who Im up against. One addtional attack wouldn't make much sence since I don't think I want to fight with them where they don't kill everything instantly anyway and rather keep that result for a huge unit of cheap dudes. Ld is the same since i think I'll my Reaves in units of 6.
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KiloFiX
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PostSubject: Re: Role shift between Reavers and Hellions 8th ed.   Thu Jun 01 2017, 21:20

Also Helions get their 2nd attack back and with Hit and Run can strike first on charge.
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Bibitybopitybacon
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PostSubject: Re: Role shift between Reavers and Hellions 8th ed.   Thu Jun 01 2017, 22:28

@KiloFiX wrote:
Also Helions get their 2nd attack back and with Hit and Run can strike first on charge.
Do you still get +1 attack for charging?
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Hellstrom
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PostSubject: Re: Role shift between Reavers and Hellions 8th ed.   Thu Jun 01 2017, 23:14

Nope
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Scrz
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PostSubject: Re: Role shift between Reavers and Hellions 8th ed.   Fri Jun 02 2017, 06:33

@Hen Tai, the tentacle guy wrote:
Giving them +1 strenght would make them more deadly. Does anyone know if keeping a succubus in a vehicle negates her influence bubble, or can she follow hellions or reavers in a venom and still buff them?

Thankfully, no auras or abilities work from inside vehicles.
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closecraig
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PostSubject: Re: Role shift between Reavers and Hellions 8th ed.   Fri Jun 02 2017, 06:46

With the change to cluster caltrops, i'll be running them in units of 6 with 2 cluster caltrops and maybe 2 blasters, increase their toughness by 1 and just charge heavy weapons teams - the opponent should either fall back which triggers my 2 cluster caltrops, get stuck in combat or charge with another unit which will prompt me to fall back.
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The Red King
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PostSubject: Re: Role shift between Reavers and Hellions 8th ed.   Fri Jun 02 2017, 09:29

Why not use grav talons and get the mortal wounds when you charge instead?

Unless you get multiple units in each combat (reasonable perhaps if your opponent is guard and has characters who won't stay in combat).

If you're just going to be charging you could probably affors to beef out the champ a little. Agoniser are so cheap. give him a reason to fall back.

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closecraig
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PostSubject: Re: Role shift between Reavers and Hellions 8th ed.   Fri Jun 02 2017, 12:05

@The Red King wrote:
Why not use grav talons and get the mortal wounds when you charge instead?

Unless you get multiple units in each combat (reasonable perhaps if your opponent is guard and has characters who won't stay in combat).

If you're just going to be charging you could probably affors to beef out the champ a little.  Agoniser are sko cheap. give him a reason to fall back.

Damnit, looked at the rules, thought it was per model not unit. Damnit!
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Jetie
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PostSubject: Re: Role shift between Reavers and Hellions 8th ed.   Fri Jun 02 2017, 12:47

Hellions are solid, I think it's the only unit I wouldn't take an Aggy on. Poor leadership will really hurt these guys though, might as well msu to mitigate this, take more wear gear and we don't get anybuffs (cept choosing same drug for them all).

Bikes with +t are pretty hard but not that nasty in cc
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Jetie
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PostSubject: Re: Role shift between Reavers and Hellions 8th ed.   Fri Jun 02 2017, 13:06


I think we'll struggle with tanks. Only dark lances 'may' do decent damage. Heatlances struggles to wound rhinos and the like.

I'm abit gutted OTHER units (screamers, swooping hawks) get what should be put bladevane rule
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Hen Tai, the tentacle guy
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PostSubject: Re: Role shift between Reavers and Hellions 8th ed.   Fri Jun 02 2017, 13:10

Remember that we stil have blasters. Shorter range and all that, but they should still do work on transports. The voidraven doesnt look bad, so it is a good back up to have as well.

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Azdrubael
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PostSubject: Re: Role shift between Reavers and Hellions 8th ed.   Fri Jun 02 2017, 13:12

Blasters D3 damage now.

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Jetie
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PostSubject: Re: Role shift between Reavers and Hellions 8th ed.   Fri Jun 02 2017, 13:15

Yeah voidraven is a good at choice. I think the bigger dissies on it are better than the lances. Shame about the 90 degree pivot though, I think it'll be a pain to use either of the fliers...
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Hen Tai, the tentacle guy
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PostSubject: Re: Role shift between Reavers and Hellions 8th ed.   Fri Jun 02 2017, 13:16

A squad of reavers or two behind a transport should be enough to steal its attention. My main goal isn't always to oneshot stuff, but to focus the opponents attention away from what will really mess him up next round. As long as it whittles enough wounds on the thing to be annoyng, I'm liking it.

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Demantiae
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PostSubject: Re: Role shift between Reavers and Hellions 8th ed.   Fri Jun 02 2017, 14:18

How does hit and run work on Hellions now? When do you fall back in a turn? Wording makes it seem like you fall back at the start of the turn and then you can charge again after. That's more like run and hit. Can you charge into combat your turn and then fall back the same turn?

Heat Lances are wounding most tanks on 5's. They'll rip through anything wound though. Heat Lances will no longer be your go-to tank destroyer weapon (Dark Lances are way better for that) but they will be good on squads who's job it is to hunt out damaged or otherwise hiding vehicles. Think hidden Whirlwinds and the like. On Reavers they may not be the best idea (1 per 3 Reaver means you'd need a squad of 9 Reavers to really have a chance to wound something, way too expensive) but 4 in a squad of Scourge will be great for hunting out those hiding vehicles. Cover doesn't matter at all to a Heat Lance. They're now precision weapons for surgical squads to deal with specific targets. Dark Lances will do 90% of your tank hunting vs most general though.

Remember, you'd don't need to kill a tank to make it ineffective. Wound it enough and it won't be hitting crap, it may as well be dead at that point.

Reavers look to be more of a reserve unit now, able to deploy quickly to do whatever job is needed of them in a pinch. They're ok at assaulting so long as you're against light troops or non cc units. They're ok at hunting out vehicles so long as it's already damaged or not too tough. Hellions look way better now at actually assaulting and look to be able to take on stronger opponents too.

One thing I just thought of for Heat Lances on Reavers, you can easily get them into position to shoot out enemy HQ's with their speed. A Heat Lance or two could tear right through a character. A T5 character with tons of armour and a lot of HP's is a 3+ to wound, no armour save outside of invul and a good possibility of one-shotting them if you roll high on damage.

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Azdrubael
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PostSubject: Re: Role shift between Reavers and Hellions 8th ed.   Fri Jun 02 2017, 14:33

Well you can escape at the start of your turn, cant shoot, but can assault again. The point of it eludes me, other then to switch targets.

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Logan Frost
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PostSubject: Re: Role shift between Reavers and Hellions 8th ed.   Fri Jun 02 2017, 14:37

The point in hit and run is attaching first every turn, and the rest of your guys can shoot your target before you charge them every turn.
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closecraig
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PostSubject: Re: Role shift between Reavers and Hellions 8th ed.   Fri Jun 02 2017, 14:38

@Azdrubael wrote:
Well you can escape at the start of your turn, cant shoot, but can assault again. The point of it eludes me, other then to switch targets.

With how players alternate activating fights, charging is a guaranteed fight you'll attack first.
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Hen Tai, the tentacle guy
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PostSubject: Re: Role shift between Reavers and Hellions 8th ed.   Fri Jun 02 2017, 14:49

Reavers could be great at charging elite flying units. They come in smaller packs and the overwatch is thus survivable. Tau crisis suits should especially be a prime target for this.

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|Meavar
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PostSubject: Re: Role shift between Reavers and Hellions 8th ed.   Fri Jun 02 2017, 15:18

Depending on the enemy weapons let those reavers eat overwatch.
At 15 points a wound t4 and a 4+ save they are much cheaper then hellions and assuming shots with no save mod and s4 better then pretty much anything we got (even cheaper then wyches)
Kabalites and raiders are the cheapest though, but this is also quite weapon dependent.
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amishprn86
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PostSubject: Re: Role shift between Reavers and Hellions 8th ed.   Fri Jun 02 2017, 21:51

Just saw this topic. Having played Beasts, Hellions and Reavers so far here is what i learned.

Hellions can EASILY get turn 1 charges, they are for sure shock damage unit. you can give them what ever drug they need at the time. Being S4 is fine but if you need to you can be S5, or T4 if they has mass bolters. if they are sitting father away give them +2" movement for 16" move, fly mena syou can go over terrain too.

Reavers are tougher, you can make them T5 2w's tie up units, this is something worth doing if they have ML units or things like Broadsides, you can also give them heat Lances/Blasters to run around as an elite killing unit (this imo might be the best way to play them)

Beastpacks are the in between you can make them cheap and fast, or costly and tanky. they are a little bit slower, i personally didnt like them.

My Hellions did alot better than i thought they where going to do, i was able to get 2 turn 1 charges off, but each time they didnt make it past turn 3.

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