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The Shredder
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PostSubject: Re: Full rules and all Indexes   Fri Jun 02 2017, 15:12

@Bibitybopitybacon wrote:
@The Shredder wrote:
I'd forgotten we could share transports now.

Could be interesting in terms of putting 2 5-man units into each Raider.
2 5man squads of assault troops is better in almost every way to 1 10 man. Particularly with Incubi.

I agree, but I was thinking in terms of shooty units as well.
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SERAFF
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PostSubject: Re: Full rules and all Indexes   Fri Jun 02 2017, 15:17

As for Moral phase, did you consider to combine Hemlock fighter with Phantasm grenade launcher?
The plane has -1 ld aura, it can cast a -1 ld spell. Plus a hit from the PGL gives totally -3 Ld. Kill at least one model for a moral test and you will get -4 modifier. Nice huh?

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CurstAlchemist
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PostSubject: Re: Full rules and all Indexes   Fri Jun 02 2017, 16:09

What are people's thoughts on tactical objectives markers being secured by having the largest number of units at the marker? Do you think an msu build will struggle to get points that require the marks to be held?
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The Shredder
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PostSubject: Re: Full rules and all Indexes   Fri Jun 02 2017, 16:15

@CurstAlchemist wrote:
What are people's thoughts on tactical objectives markers being secured by having the largest number of units at the marker? Do you think an msu build will struggle to get points that require the marks to be held?

I think we should be looking to just blow the enemy units off the marker.

Leave dumping bodies on them to IG and 'nids. Wink
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Massaen
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PostSubject: Re: Full rules and all Indexes   Fri Jun 02 2017, 16:39

ok - just played by first game... oh my god... I will post up separately but I can say the game is so very different

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nerdelemental
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PostSubject: Re: Full rules and all Indexes   Fri Jun 02 2017, 16:52

@Massaen wrote:
ok - just played by first game... oh my god... I will post up separately but I can say the game is so very different

Dude. I haven't been teased that bad since prom.
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mynamelegend
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PostSubject: Re: Full rules and all Indexes   Fri Jun 02 2017, 17:00

@The Shredder wrote:
Long fantastic and perfect dismantling of "HQs are better now, also would you awful people start being more positive" statement

Did you ever know that you're my heeeero, and everything I would like to be? I can fly higher than an eeeeagle, for you are the wind beneath my wings.

@Massaen wrote:
ok - just played by first game... oh my god... I will post up separately but I can say the game is so very different

Jesus Christ, it's like the message board equivalent of edging. Speak out your beard, spill the beans, spit it out man!
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Massaen
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PostSubject: Re: Full rules and all Indexes   Fri Jun 02 2017, 17:32

@mynamelegend wrote:
@Massaen wrote:
ok - just played by first game... oh my god... I will post up separately but I can say the game is so very different

Jesus Christ, it's like the message board equivalent of edging. Speak out your beard, spill the beans, spit it out man!

@nerdelemental wrote:
Dude. I haven't been teased that bad since prom.

Hahahahahahahahahaha - thanks guys - that made my night!

Here you go! - linky to the game


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Jimsolo
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PostSubject: Re: Full rules and all Indexes   Fri Jun 02 2017, 18:00

I've just kind of rifled through it, but a couple of things jumped out at me.

1. Hellglaives seem much better in this version.
2. Combat Drugs seem improved.
3. Haemonculi providing +1 T bubbles seems pretty hot. T5 Wracks seems like a huge improvement.
4. There are a lot of positives, but Freakshows seem like they're dead. Oh, well. Fun while it lasted.
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Archon_91
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PostSubject: Re: Full rules and all Indexes   Fri Jun 02 2017, 18:05

I think another interesting option for taking down high wound models is a five man Trueborn unit with 2 Dark lances and 3 blasters in a venom ... If the venom dies those two Dark lances are still mobile and more effective then they were before as moving them will cause hits on a 4+ instead of a 6+ as it is in 7th Ed
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Scrz
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PostSubject: Re: Full rules and all Indexes   Fri Jun 02 2017, 18:08

Another point for going MSU is that you can fill up more detachments to get more command points. With the Archons being this cheap it is not much of an HQ tax, and we can cut down on transportation costs by carpooling... Raiderpooling? Whatever.
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Hellstrom
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PostSubject: Re: Full rules and all Indexes   Fri Jun 02 2017, 18:18

Archons are 70 points a pop with a Blaster. That's quite a heavy tax ......
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Scrz
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PostSubject: Re: Full rules and all Indexes   Fri Jun 02 2017, 18:36

It used to be, but I don't think it is that much anymore. Besides, you can run him naked. And if you think of it like you are actually paying for a couple of more command points while you get a 2++ chump blocker that might kill something in CC while he gives a minuscule buff to warriors, and unlocks slots for Sslyth, it might not be the worst point you could invest?
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amishprn86
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PostSubject: Re: Full rules and all Indexes   Fri Jun 02 2017, 18:37

Ok ive been asleep but here are some things we notice

Raiders are really tanky now (All vehicles are) and sense you can move 14" shoot everything, i had 2 of them and 1 with Trueborn with Shredders. I was bumbing out like 60-80 shoots a turn with just 500pts.

B.c the Raiders are so tanky and you have many of them the opponent will for sure be shooting at your Raiders over Talos for the 1st 2-3 turns for sure.

Archons are IMO not a tax anymore, Shadowfield is an ability now and i took the pistol not the blaster (to use in melee also). He was 68pts with the 2 weapons, he solo killed a terminator lord in melee without breaking a sweat.
Unless you fail the 2++ he is really good for the points, 2+ to-hit, 4's to wound even T10 guys with -2ap, and then on your turn shoot the S8, -4pa D3 wound pistol Smile


@Jimsolo True freakshow isnt possible (Moral shenanigans) but Coven i'm trying next week and also Harlequins.


I personally think Harlequins are going to be really strong.

The full army now has a 4++ (from 5++ and once per game 4++) all vehicles -1 to hit and you can get -1 to hit bubbles with -1 to hit powers. Having 1 is good, but you need a Troupe Master or 2.

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The Shredder
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PostSubject: Re: Full rules and all Indexes   Fri Jun 02 2017, 19:07

@Scrz wrote:
Besides, you can run him naked.

Shocked
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CptMetal
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PostSubject: Re: Full rules and all Indexes   Fri Jun 02 2017, 19:11

You can't run him naked. He got weapons in his profile and you have to pay for it

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amishprn86
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PostSubject: Re: Full rules and all Indexes   Fri Jun 02 2017, 19:12

@The Shredder wrote:
@Scrz wrote:
Besides, you can run him naked.

Shocked

You have to take what they are "armed with" some units are armed with 20pt items like them Raider.

But for many Infantry units the basic gear that you have to take is 0pts

An Archon is armed with Splinter Pistol and Huskblade, the Huskblade does cost points, but you can instead take an Agoniser for less points and IMO is better b.c you always have a 50/50 chance to wound compare to a 33.7% chance too, and its cheaper.

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The Shredder
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PostSubject: Re: Full rules and all Indexes   Fri Jun 02 2017, 19:33

@amishprn86 wrote:
An Archon is armed with Splinter Pistol and Huskblade, the Huskblade does cost points, but you can instead take an Agoniser for less points and IMO is better b.c you always have a 50/50 chance to wound compare to a 33.7% chance too, and its cheaper.

Worth remembering though that each wound the Huskblade lands will (on average) be doubled. So it might still be worth it over an Agoniser.

To be honest, given the minuscule difference in points, I'd probably go with the Huskblade if only for variety's sake (since every sergeant can and probably will take an Agoniser).

I think a blaster might be worth it, too.

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Scrz
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PostSubject: Re: Full rules and all Indexes   Fri Jun 02 2017, 19:40

*naked = without upgrades of any kind. Just the mandatory stock kit. The same concept as before only you have to do the math yourself now.
OR
you proxy him with the old Kruellagh model

The concept that you can now downgrade the Archon is pretty fun.
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The Shredder
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PostSubject: Re: Full rules and all Indexes   Fri Jun 02 2017, 19:43

@Scrz wrote:
*naked = without upgrades of any kind.

I know, I was just being immature.

@Scrz wrote:
The concept that you can now downgrade the Archon is pretty fun.

To me, it's weird that his stock weapon is the most expensive one. Seems like that's the opposite of how it should work.
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amishprn86
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PostSubject: Re: Full rules and all Indexes   Fri Jun 02 2017, 19:45

Yes it does D3 wounds, but not reliable. he is only S3, T6 you need 6's

Its not a down grade, b.c he is still a base cost then you buy weapons, you are just buying a cheaper weapon b.c it you can have a Huskblade or a Agoniser :3
The Huskblade is "Iconic''

But i understand where you are coming from XD

I'm going to try Urien next week, 4++ with reroll saves if the strength is less than 9 (basically everything but knights and crazy insane characters).

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The Shredder
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PostSubject: Re: Full rules and all Indexes   Fri Jun 02 2017, 19:49

@amishprn86 wrote:
Yes it does D3 wounds, but not reliable. he is only S3, T6 you need 6's

Granted. But then I don't see poison weapons doing much against T6 stuff either.

@amishprn86 wrote:
The Huskblade is "Iconic''

Surely you mean was? Wink
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amishprn86
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PostSubject: Re: Full rules and all Indexes   Fri Jun 02 2017, 20:11

Poison wounds on 4's still Wink

You could still take the Huskblade, against many Multi-wound models it would more than likely be better, like if you are going against termies more often.

But for me it was "Can i reliable kill these 2-3 SM's?" a D3 damage isnt good against a 1 wound model.

It depends what you want, the Blaster Pistol killed the Termi-lord, Agonisers better for killing infantry.

The Syberite with one was FUN! its nice having a killy warriors for just in case (at the cost of 14pts he was able to kill 3 solo lol).

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The Shredder
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PostSubject: Re: Full rules and all Indexes   Fri Jun 02 2017, 20:32

@amishprn86 wrote:
Poison wounds on 4's still Wink

I get that, but you haven't got many attacks, you don't do multiple wounds and the AP is poor.

@amishprn86 wrote:

But for me it was "Can i reliable kill these 2-3 SM's?" a D3 damage isnt good against a 1 wound model.

That's true. Out of interest, what about a power sword?

@amishprn86 wrote:
It depends what you want, the Blaster Pistol killed the Termi-lord, Agonisers better for killing infantry.

Blast Pistol is interesting now. I'm still not sure I'd want one (simply because I'd rather avoid combat altogether with my Archon), but if I was aiming for melee over shooting it might be worth a go.
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amishprn86
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PostSubject: Re: Full rules and all Indexes   Fri Jun 02 2017, 20:59

PW is user strength, yeah it is -3 ap but also if im against orcs, or necrons then its not as important.

I was trying to get a "over all" weapon, i like to make TAC lists.

Avoiding combat is nice but it won me the game Smile

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