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Hellstrom
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PostSubject: Full rules and all Indexes   Wed May 31 2017, 11:57

Posting this link is in direct violation of rule 5 of the forum - please familiarise yourself with the forum guidelines HERE before posting things of this nature - thanks, TDC Mods

Apologies. I'll refrain in the future.


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Trystis
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PostSubject: Re: Full rules and all Indexes   Wed May 31 2017, 12:21

Harlequins are looking kind of ferocious
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Count Adhemar
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PostSubject: Re: Full rules and all Indexes   Wed May 31 2017, 12:22

They actually lose something now if they are Ynnari. No Rising Crescendo for you!

Speaking of Ynnari, they have a Ynnead's Will special rule that lets them embark on Aeldari transports - except I can't see any units with that rule and it doesn't seem to be army-wide!

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Trystis
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PostSubject: Re: Full rules and all Indexes   Wed May 31 2017, 12:26

I have just been playing my Harlequins pure so i haven't really thought about that. They are kind of bland compared to current, and I haven't really reviewed the points yet, but it's looking good so far
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Count Adhemar
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PostSubject: Re: Full rules and all Indexes   Wed May 31 2017, 12:32

Eldar Guardians are still 3+ WS/BS for no apparent reason. The Spiritseer is 2+/2+!!! (ie, same as the Avatar of Khaine!)

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Trystis
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PostSubject: Re: Full rules and all Indexes   Wed May 31 2017, 12:34

@Count Adhemar wrote:
Eldar Guardians are still 3+ WS/BS for no apparent reason.

That's bothered me more than I can express since they made the change. Sure jet bikes and wraithknights have essentially invalidated my armies, but it's the guardians being equal to warriors that has irked me the most.
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Subsanity
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PostSubject: Re: Full rules and all Indexes   Wed May 31 2017, 13:02

I did not see anything for trueborn did anyone els?
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nerdelemental
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PostSubject: Re: Full rules and all Indexes   Wed May 31 2017, 13:02

Still plugging away page by page, but overall I'm over the moon on just about every entry. Very clean and logical. Of course I have not bothered to look at the other factions for comparison.
Talos seems nuts. I love the fliers. Hellions look good. And holy cow - the movement of our units! Jeesh!
Venom seems much weaker because Splinter Cannons now fire so many few shots. Bummer. But the vehicle doesn't degrade as it gets chewed up.
Raider is amazing. I'm glad I've always been a Raider-spam v. Venom-spam player. Little adjustment for me.
Am I off, or are Scourges the new borken? They seem WAY too good to be true to me. Fly, Mv of 14", same amazing guns. Am I missing something?
Archon...that's a nice apology from GW for the past 5+ years of Dark Eldar. I may forgive you GW.
I'm not sure the PfP table is good, but I can tell it does not suck. I'll need to play it. The drugs, however, are awesome. That's how it should have been handled all along. I can *pick* drugs for my addicts? OMG. Perfect. THANK YOU.


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nerdelemental
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PostSubject: Re: Full rules and all Indexes   Wed May 31 2017, 13:09

@Subsanity wrote:
I did not see anything for trueborn did anyone els?

They are on the file immediately left of the Wyches
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Hellstrom
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PostSubject: Re: Full rules and all Indexes   Wed May 31 2017, 13:25

@nerdelemental wrote:
Still plugging away page by page, but overall I'm over the moon on just about every entry. Very clean and logical. Of course I have not bothered to look at the other factions for comparison.
Talos seems nuts. I love the fliers. Hellions look good. And holy cow - the movement of our units! Jeesh!
Venom seems much weaker because Splinter Cannons now fire so many few shots. Bummer. But the vehicle doesn't degrade as it gets chewed up.
Raider is amazing. I'm glad I've always been a Raider-spam v. Venom-spam player. Little adjustment for me.
Am I off, or are Scourges the new borken? They seem WAY too good to be true to me. Fly, Mv of 14", same amazing guns. Am I missing something?

I think you have a different ruleset to me .......... How are you happy with this lot ???
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Hellstrom
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PostSubject: Re: Full rules and all Indexes   Wed May 31 2017, 13:26

Also. 13 points for a Devastator and 11 points for a Kabalite Trueborn. Erm?
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nerdelemental
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PostSubject: Re: Full rules and all Indexes   Wed May 31 2017, 13:31

I've not examined point costs. That can sway my opinion greatly, I admit. Nor have I looked at any other rules other than what's been teased in the past weeks. That could sway my opinion, too.
How are you not happy with Scourges, though? And the Archon? There are some other things like Hellions and Reavers that look good. Wyches are still barely MEH but this stuff looks more logically playable than what I've been fielding over the last several years.

What do you see Hellstrom?
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SERAFF
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PostSubject: Re: Full rules and all Indexes   Wed May 31 2017, 13:43

What do you think guys, could we as the community somehow influence at this... situation with our index? We obviously loose to Craftworldres. Again. Point costs are messed. Profiles are messed. Lots of stuff got nerfed.
We need to make a feedback. Good, polite, reasonable, weighted. If there is just a grain of truth in those tons of GW lie, they could probably listen to us.

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Azdrubael
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PostSubject: Re: Full rules and all Indexes   Wed May 31 2017, 13:44

Mindphase Gauntlet - we ran out of ideas so its dmg2. Comon, so many codexes to finish at once!

And i thought 7th ed was boring one.

Harlequins are insanely boring. No more rending on kiss. Caress worse AP then then embrace. Death Jester flee ability only work in close combat. Lazy rush job.

No thought, just shoehorn what is in new boundaries and tweak here and there. Thats all genious.

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Hen Tai, the tentacle guy
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PostSubject: Re: Full rules and all Indexes   Wed May 31 2017, 13:47

Wyches look great! With the right buff and turn you can pump out 50 attacks and shoot in cc.

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Dark Elf Dave
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PostSubject: Re: Full rules and all Indexes   Wed May 31 2017, 14:02

@Hellstrom wrote:
Also.  13 points for a Devastator and 11 points for a Kabalite Trueborn.  Erm?

In 7th a 5 man Trueborn squad with x4 blasters cost 125 points.

In 7th a Devastator Squad with a x4 heavy weapons cost around 130 points.
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The Shredder
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PostSubject: Re: Full rules and all Indexes   Wed May 31 2017, 14:11

@Hellstrom wrote:
@nerdelemental wrote:
Still plugging away page by page, but overall I'm over the moon on just about every entry. Very clean and logical. Of course I have not bothered to look at the other factions for comparison.
Talos seems nuts. I love the fliers. Hellions look good. And holy cow - the movement of our units! Jeesh!
Venom seems much weaker because Splinter Cannons now fire so many few shots. Bummer. But the vehicle doesn't degrade as it gets chewed up.
Raider is amazing. I'm glad I've always been a Raider-spam v. Venom-spam player. Little adjustment for me.
Am I off, or are Scourges the new borken? They seem WAY too good to be true to me. Fly, Mv of 14", same amazing guns. Am I missing something?

I think you have a different ruleset to me .......... How are you happy with this lot ???

Yeah, I was thinking the exact same thing.

Every single HQ we have has been gutted completely. Even worse than they were in 7th. Oh, and Urien lost his signature ability. The one that his entire fluff is based around and which is the reason for his current appearance.

Seriously, I could swallow ink and vomit onto a piece of paper and it would still be an improvement over our wargear section.

I mean, I'd have thought our Splinter Cannons might have been safe, but apparently even that was too much to ask.

It just looks like we've been gutted completely in both shooting and melee.

I guess we've still got Ravagers. Neutral
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Hen Tai, the tentacle guy
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PostSubject: Re: Full rules and all Indexes   Wed May 31 2017, 14:17

We are not gutted yet. Our troops are great now. Dark lance with kabalites has hige potential, now that we can split fire. Hellions are now versatile, reavers have changed their combat role a bit, but still has potential. Venoms are a bit meh, but other armies has it worse. Muhrines are crying rivers over their drop pods now.

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Count Adhemar
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PostSubject: Re: Full rules and all Indexes   Wed May 31 2017, 14:23

@Hen Tai, the tentacle guy wrote:
Muhrines are crying rivers over their drop pods now.

What, you mean those vehicles that drop you within rapid fire range of your opponents every single time without fail and without scatter. The poor things!!

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Hen Tai, the tentacle guy
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PostSubject: Re: Full rules and all Indexes   Wed May 31 2017, 14:24

Yes. They cost more, so they cant take as many. They are absolutely raging about it. lol!

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Hen Tai, the tentacle guy
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PostSubject: Re: Full rules and all Indexes   Wed May 31 2017, 14:27

A friend who plays GK, claims he have been gutted even more. Havent looked at their rules, so I cant verify. I both feel and drink their pain.

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CurstAlchemist
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PostSubject: Re: Full rules and all Indexes   Wed May 31 2017, 14:31

Nevermind I find it still half asleep.
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nerdelemental
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PostSubject: Re: Full rules and all Indexes   Wed May 31 2017, 14:34

Yeah, I'm optimistic because I have a chat going with an Imperial friend and a Tau/Necron (and a spattering of SM). They are CRYING. They say they're nerfed to high hell. Lamenting costs, loss of power. I'm seeing some basic even keel stuff. Everything seems familiar to me. I think I'm more optimistic because the armies that have regularly swung my DE around like a rag doll are (possibly) feeling a much greater burn.

Balance and streamlining. Everything is relative. I see minor losses compared to the complaints of friends I trust.
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The Shredder
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PostSubject: Re: Full rules and all Indexes   Wed May 31 2017, 14:34

@Hen Tai, the tentacle guy wrote:
We are not gutted yet. Our troops are great now. Dark lance with kabalites has hige potential, now that we can split fire. Hellions are now versatile, reavers have changed their combat role a bit, but still has potential. Venoms are a bit meh, but other armies has it worse. Muhrines are crying rivers over their drop pods now.

That might be true, but at the same time the changes to our HQs has just killed my interest in DE completely.

There just isn't a single one of them that I'd want to lead my army. They're boring, they're weak, their wargear is lacklustre and they've just go no fun or interesting abilities.

I know I'm a bit weird, but HQs are really important to me. It was one of the things that drew me to Corsairs over DE - because I finally had access to a fun HQ with good wargear that could actually be customised in a meaningful way.

Honestly though, even outside of HQs, there's just nothing in the new DE rules that would make me want to play them over, say, Necrons. Hell, Necrons actually look pretty damn good. Many of their HQs now appear to work properly (Trazyn is no longer crap, the Stormlord is no longer useless in melee). Their rules seem both strong and flavourful. They just look like they've come out of 7th really well, whilst we seem to have suffered many unnecessary nerfs, lost what little flavour we had, gained no interesting rules, and had our already poor characters gutted utterly.


Anyway, I'll try to make this my last rant here. At least until Corsairs drop . . .
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Massaen
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PostSubject: Re: Full rules and all Indexes   Wed May 31 2017, 14:35

Its a whole new game... I wish people would remember that...

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