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 Almost Full DE rules w/ Picks

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Logan Frost
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PostSubject: Re: Almost Full DE rules w/ Picks   Wed May 31 2017, 00:51

Reavers drastically shifted in role, but I don't think they got nerfed.
They are faster, tougher, slightly more survivable wyches, and giving them the right drug, which can now be selected, they can be pretty hard to kill and pack a serious punch.
They just don't rely on HoW now.
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Dark Elf Dave
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PostSubject: Re: Almost Full DE rules w/ Picks   Wed May 31 2017, 00:55

Totally agree Reavers will change their roll once again. I had them in mind for CC but now I'm liking heat lances to target characters and remove buffs for the opponent. No mention of night vision...this gone?


Last edited by Dark Elf Dave on Wed May 31 2017, 00:57; edited 1 time in total
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amishprn86
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PostSubject: Re: Almost Full DE rules w/ Picks   Wed May 31 2017, 00:56

Yeah we are basically 3 armies now, you can still mix and max easily tho, but not the same as other ed's

Im honestly HATING IC's being solo... i mean i REALLY F'ING HATE IT.

IDK if i will even use Reavers now honestly.

And Night fight most likely if gone, so no Night Vision.

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TeenageAngst
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PostSubject: Re: Almost Full DE rules w/ Picks   Wed May 31 2017, 01:01

Quote :
Yeah we are basically 3 armies now, you can still mix and max easily tho, but not the same as other ed's

There's going to be no reason to. You will miss out on command benefits that are specific do Wych Cult, Haemonculus Coven, or Kabal. The further down the tree you go, the more specific you get, the better the benefits. This is how AoS works so this is how this will work. Also you will probably get bonuses for having X models in a unit or having Y units in a detachment that will also pigeonhole you into picking one extremely specific army.

Basically you can expect to get real cozy with about one third of your models.

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Dark Elf Dave
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PostSubject: Re: Almost Full DE rules w/ Picks   Wed May 31 2017, 01:03

From what we have seen of the rules, the idea is to build a battle forged army and that can potentially mean having several detachments. You can look to combine detachments like for example a H.Coven detachment with a Kabal detachment. I think these first look rules are just to get people started and once the eventual codex comes out we will have DE specific builds.
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amishprn86
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PostSubject: Re: Almost Full DE rules w/ Picks   Wed May 31 2017, 01:08

I mean if you want a full Coven unit, it might be good to have a Faster/Shock unit like Hellions or Beastpacks to get board control if you are playing with low model count high value units.

Of if you are Wych, having some Talos will be good b.c you will need harder hitting units. Yeah those few units will get 0 support in buffs, but you are filling holes.

I dont really like it this way at all honestly, but its here to stay :/

About Battleforge. Yes more Detachments is better for command points, but if you play "this detachment is Coven and this one is wyches" then your basically playing 7th Allies, where they work together and can someone help either other, but dont benefit from buffs.

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TeenageAngst
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PostSubject: Re: Almost Full DE rules w/ Picks   Wed May 31 2017, 01:16

@Dark Elf Dave wrote:
From what we have seen of the rules, the idea is to build a battle forged army and that can potentially mean having several detachments. You can look to combine detachments like for example a H.Coven detachment with a Kabal detachment. I think these first look rules are just to get people started and once the eventual codex comes out we will have DE specific builds.

Detachments are a myth created by the Soviets in the 1950s. Here's how it works. You have an overfaction, in this case "AELFDARI". You can build an entire detachment out of any AELFDARI you want, it doesn't really matter. Fitting units into detachments is literally just there to grab you command points. That is the entire purpose.

From here however is *army composition*. If your ARMY, that is your list, regardless of if all your factions are in the same communal detachment or segregated. If your army contains only DRUCHHAERI, then you get better benefits, as the DRUCHARIEKRI benefits are better than the basic AELFDARI ones. Then if you have only Covens or Kabalite or Cult units then you get even better benefits. It's turtles all the way down.

The downside is if you dare to run a small patrol detachment of Harlequins with your DRUIDAQUIRI main force then you lose everything except access to the AELFDARI command benefits, or "stratagems" or w/e they call them now. Even though you could bring Harlequins in a Dark Eldar army not ONE. EDITION. AGO.

Now the real clincher, the real decision maker is whether or not these command benefits justify the extremely pedantic lists accessing them will require. If it's something like allowing you to double your shooting phase once per game, then it's an autopick. If it's something stupid though then it's obviously not worth it. The trouble is, there's very little in between, as the command benefits are a guaranteed benefit, something you can rely on, something you can build an entire strategy around.

Quote :
Of if you are Wych, having some Talos will be good b.c you will need harder hitting units. Yeah those few units will get 0 support in buffs, but you are filling holes.

8th of Sigmar is all about stacking buffs. Stacking buffs is your bread and butter. It will make or break your list, your army, your game. If you're not stacking buffs you will lose every single time to someone who is.

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Last edited by TeenageAngst on Wed May 31 2017, 01:17; edited 1 time in total
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Faitherun
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PostSubject: Re: Almost Full DE rules w/ Picks   Wed May 31 2017, 01:16

@Dark Elf Dave wrote:
...is jink still a thing and if so what does it do? If it's a modifier to hit then what's the draw back? Snap shooting?

Yup. Same link the dark angles have Jink as a special rule (it's under abilities for Sammuel on Corvex ) and in the previous section it says that Jink gives you a 5++ vs shooting if you advance
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Logan Frost
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PostSubject: Re: Almost Full DE rules w/ Picks   Wed May 31 2017, 01:17

The cronos synergies well with a cult army, you could have 3 cronos healing wounded reavers or characters and a heamy to buff the cronos (cronosses? croni?).
There you have it, SYNERGY!
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Dark Elf Dave
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PostSubject: Re: Almost Full DE rules w/ Picks   Wed May 31 2017, 01:18

If you look at AOS you will notice the amount of banner holders and independent characters. I fully expect this to be a thing in 40k. You will have noticed how the 40k starter set comes with a banner holder for both factions and also for Primaris a captain as well as two lieutenants who act as a 2nd HQ. There are going to be a lot more people using a lot more independent characters adding buffs.

For us that might mean a Succubus leading Wyches and Haemonculus leading Wracks/Grotesques. It's kinda cool especially if you can take out the opponents buffers!

I also don't like that characters can't join units. Mostly because it means a coordinated charge could result in only one of the two making it into combat...that could mean your Wracks in combat with no buffs or your Haemonculus in combat by himself. I've got that right haven't I? It also means if the first unit charges and takes the overwatch but doesn't roll high enough on the charge then the 2nd unit will also have to suffer overwatch.
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TeenageAngst
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PostSubject: Re: Almost Full DE rules w/ Picks   Wed May 31 2017, 01:21

@Dark Elf Dave and @Logan Frost your avatars are devilishly confusing.

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Logan Frost
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PostSubject: Re: Almost Full DE rules w/ Picks   Wed May 31 2017, 01:24

I call dibs.
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Dark Elf Dave
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PostSubject: Re: Almost Full DE rules w/ Picks   Wed May 31 2017, 01:25

Lol I hadn't noticed!
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organicpesticide
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PostSubject: Re: Almost Full DE rules w/ Picks   Wed May 31 2017, 01:27

Redacted


Last edited by organicpesticide on Wed May 31 2017, 03:34; edited 2 times in total
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Dark Elf Dave
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PostSubject: Re: Almost Full DE rules w/ Picks   Wed May 31 2017, 01:29

If we get new models who do you think they will update? Wracks went from fine cast to plastic but Incubi stayed fine cast...do you think they might update those models? We need extra grotesques as well and a new Drazhar.
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Klaive
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PostSubject: Re: Almost Full DE rules w/ Picks   Wed May 31 2017, 01:32

72" move on the Razorwing Jetfighter at full wounds. I think they captured the essence of "supersonic" quite well there.

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Dark Elf Dave
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PostSubject: Re: Almost Full DE rules w/ Picks   Wed May 31 2017, 01:34

Talos does 2 damage with its scalpel.

And Lance weapons have very good AP modifiers.
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Talos
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PostSubject: Re: Almost Full DE rules w/ Picks   Wed May 31 2017, 01:37

Some of my first impression thoughts
Power from pain.
Our Fnp gets lower for each edition of the rules. Hope everyone else Fnp is going down as well
But hitting the entire world on 2+ sounds good to me

Incubi have started to hate everyone and refuse to sheer a transport ..wonder what happened ther?

Sslyths lokks good. The addition ap1 in cc I good, and the re-roll to hit (both shooting and in cc?) makes up for the fewer attacks. And double the wounds makes the grotesques envy them. A lot of units of one with an archon in a transport sound good to me.

The archon has increased his wounds to 5, then the shadowfield is gone he may survie for another round or two.  His weapon selection is kind of mehe, but I blaster and agonizer I think. Maybe a blast pistol? Thoughts on those?

beastpacks
the single unit beastmaster will be shot. So units of khymeras are out? (I have like 40 of them)
Single units of clawed fiend looks ok thou..
Splintercannons and rapid fire
venoms are doomed to shoot 6 shoots and 36. And all 12 at 18. No more backfield venoms…
Ravnagers and razorwings seams to be mandatory for long range firepower

still a lot of weapons to mathammer
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TeenageAngst
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PostSubject: Re: Almost Full DE rules w/ Picks   Wed May 31 2017, 01:41

Not seeing anywhere that Incubi can't join with other units in vehicles.

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Dark Elf Dave
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PostSubject: Re: Almost Full DE rules w/ Picks   Wed May 31 2017, 02:05

Do you still gain +1 attack if you charge?
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PostSubject: Re: Almost Full DE rules w/ Picks   Wed May 31 2017, 02:17

@TeenageAngst wrote:
Not seeing anywhere that Incubi can't join with other units in vehicles.

From the venom
Transport: The model can transport 5 Incubi or Drukhari infantry models, other then grotesques.
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TeenageAngst
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PostSubject: Re: Almost Full DE rules w/ Picks   Wed May 31 2017, 02:21

Right, so if you're an Incubi or a Dark Eldar Infantry but not a Grotesque, you can board it.

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Dark Elf Dave
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PostSubject: Re: Almost Full DE rules w/ Picks   Wed May 31 2017, 02:22

The Raider says 10 Incubi or Drukhari infantry models...I think it's just a keyword thing not a restriction. Incubi have the drukhari and Incubi keyword.
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PostSubject: Re: Almost Full DE rules w/ Picks   Wed May 31 2017, 02:25

My clowns can't board a Raider now. They could in 7th. They could in every other edition there were Raiders. Now they can't.

I want to punch Mike Brandt.

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PostSubject: Re: Almost Full DE rules w/ Picks   Wed May 31 2017, 02:28

@Dark Elf Dave wrote:
The Raider says 10 Incubi or Drukhari infantry models...I think it's just a keyword thing not a restriction. Incubi have the drukhari and Incubi keyword.

But Incubi says they are Drukhari, so i'm 100% sure its 1 or the other, and not both at same time.

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