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Painjunky
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PostSubject: Re: Almost Full DE rules w/ Picks   Wed May 31 2017, 10:35

@Cavash wrote:
Oooh the saltiness amuses me. I am going to wait until I have a few games under my belt before I make up my mind in all this. Even then I will be waiting until the proper codex comes out. I am still hopeful for this edition and it has actually encouraged me to play for the first time since 6th ed.

I'm not complaining about how powerful DE will be (the DE meta builds will work themselves out) just the asinine formatting. Rolling Eyes
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Sairaus
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PostSubject: Re: Almost Full DE rules w/ Picks   Wed May 31 2017, 10:38

Edit: Sharing limit reached just as I posted this : (
Decent images from every book:
https://onedrive.live.com/?authkey=%21ALe1vRw6e6HC0pA&id=B363D7DA57D09F04%2137264&cid=B363D7DA57D09F04


Last three drugs: +1 T,+1 Ws (3+ becomes 2+) and +2 Ld
What is the point of "hovering" on raider..?


Last edited by Sairaus on Wed May 31 2017, 10:49; edited 2 times in total
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|Meavar
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PostSubject: Re: Almost Full DE rules w/ Picks   Wed May 31 2017, 10:41

The main thing I hate is that all our mini units now suddenly need 5 models.
I also agree that the formatting could have been better, but in the old dex you had the same problem except for a few unit specific options you needed to flip back and forth as well. Now at least if you know your models are legal you have all the points on 1 page. Only for trying out new equipment you need to pace back and forth a lot to see the possible wargear options.

I know I don't have a large army yet (used to be 750 points) but it included 3 mandrakes, and 3 incubi. Both suddenly have a larger minimum unit size...
And with the new rules sure I am allowed to use 3 jeah, but I still have to pay for the minimum of 5...
Damn you GW.
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Painjunky
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PostSubject: Re: Almost Full DE rules w/ Picks   Wed May 31 2017, 10:51

@|Meavar wrote:
I also agree that the formatting could have been better, but in the old dex you had the same problem  except for a few unit specific options you needed to flip back and forth as well. Now at least if you know your models are legal you have all the points on 1 page. Only for trying out new equipment you need to pace back and forth a lot to see the possible wargear options.

There is much more annoying page flipping now as the auto equipped shooting and CC weapons are not included in the base cost. For some reason.

I thought they were trying to streamline this mofo. Rolling Eyes
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The Red King
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PostSubject: Re: Almost Full DE rules w/ Picks   Wed May 31 2017, 10:53

I can't see any reason to ever use a razorwing flock or ur-ghoul.

I mean they took away rending and gave them nothing to represent what are supposed to be RAZOR wings.
I know it's a little early and I'm still excited to figure this new edition out (even if I may eventually not like the answer) but I am hoping betray plans to do another buff/nerf summary like last book.

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Ikol
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PostSubject: Re: Almost Full DE rules w/ Picks   Wed May 31 2017, 10:56

They did.

If you're using Scrublord!Power-Level system.

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|Meavar
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PostSubject: Re: Almost Full DE rules w/ Picks   Wed May 31 2017, 11:01

At least now we know why agonizers and phatom grenades and shock prows are in all the squads, they are cheap.


Last edited by |Meavar on Wed May 31 2017, 11:03; edited 1 time in total
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Count Adhemar
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PostSubject: Re: Almost Full DE rules w/ Picks   Wed May 31 2017, 11:01

@The Red King wrote:
I can't see any reason to ever use a razorwing flock or ur-ghoul.

I mean they took away rending and gave them nothing to represent what are supposed to be RAZOR wings.
I know it's a little early and I'm still excited to figure this new edition out (even if I may eventually not like the answer) but I am hoping betray plans to do another buff/nerf summary like last book.

As he's been banned I think it's unlikely (or at least unlikely to appear on this forum)

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Dark Elf Dave
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PostSubject: Re: Almost Full DE rules w/ Picks   Wed May 31 2017, 11:08

Have you seen the GW example of how to build an army list on their website?

Clearly you note down which unit you are taking, how many models in the unit and what weapons/wargear they are taking. Then you turn the points page and add it all up. This is the old way that we used to do things in earlier editions like 2nd and 3rd.

I would imagine this is simply to keep points costs all in one place rather than spread out over the entire codex. This makes a lot of sense if you want to do a spot check on the opponents army list. You can literally work out the points cost of an army from just one page as long as they equipped with the weapons physically on the models.
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The Red King
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PostSubject: Re: Almost Full DE rules w/ Picks   Wed May 31 2017, 11:14

Oh. I missed that incident it seems.

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Hellstrom
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PostSubject: Re: Almost Full DE rules w/ Picks   Wed May 31 2017, 11:33

That doesn't work if you are working to a points limit though ... which all of us do.
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Painjunky
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PostSubject: Re: Almost Full DE rules w/ Picks   Wed May 31 2017, 11:37

@Dark Elf Dave wrote:
Have you seen the GW example of how to build an army list on their website?

Clearly you note down which unit you are taking, how many models in the unit and what weapons/wargear they are taking.  Then you turn the points page and add it all up.  This is the old way that we used to do things in earlier editions like 2nd and 3rd.

I would imagine this is simply to keep points costs all in one place rather than spread out over the entire codex.  This makes a lot of sense if you want to do a spot check on the opponents army list.  You can literally work out the points cost of an army from just one page as long as they equipped with the weapons physically on the models.

Not at all.
This formatting requires much more page flipping for you to make a list AND your opponent if he wants to check your list.

Why not take the most obvious and practical option and list the total unit cost including their equipped cc and shooting weapons + the options and the cost on 1 page? No page flipping required.
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Scrz
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PostSubject: Re: Almost Full DE rules w/ Picks   Wed May 31 2017, 11:37

@Painjunky wrote:
Why???

Why in the name of all that is defiled and unholy in this universe did they decide NOT to put the  complete units cost, inclusive of all CC and shooting weapons AND the cost for any wargear options On the same page Question Question Question

As it is I have to go to the units page.
Then take note of all the units CC and shooting weapons.
Then take note of all the possible options.
Then flip and flip and flip to find all the relevent pts costs.
Then add them up.
Then flip back because i forgot an option.
Then flip forward again.
Then re calculate.
Then flip to the special rules and keywords sections to look up something.

Ill say it again, Why in the name of all that is defiled and unholy in this universe did they decide NOT to put the  complete units cost, inclusive of all CC and shooting weapons AND the cost for upgrades On the same page Question Question Question

I suspect that it is because

1 They want you to use their new army builder app with auto updates and probably micro-transactions.
2 When they are going to rebalance the game in about a year or so, they can publish a couple of pages with updated points costs and leave the data sheets as is.


@CurstAlchemist wrote:
I think the 7+ save is so that those more mentally challenged players don't get confused when adding to the armor save when in cover, so a 7+ becomes a 6+ and if shot by an AP - weapon they get to roll a 6+ save.

I was writing out the same thing only I used he term "RAW fanatics". Potato/tater. I'm pretty sure that some people would happily argue that "if cover improves save by +1, but you don't have a save on your warscroll, there is nothing to improve and you get nothing."

The wording for who can ride in the raiders might be there to allow Incubi from that crazy religious death cult mishmash faction to hitch a ride?

As big a fan as I am of stacking buffs, I don't really think that we need the characters to tag along with units in an unfluffy way. The thought of Haemies tiptoeing into combat with wyches while the succubus is stuck on the other side of the board in a boat with smelly, mindless meat puppets rubs me the wrong way. Besides the bubbles are pretty small and I don't think they are going to naturally hang out in the same areas on the battlefield.


PS: I'm not trying to be positive! You should all still definitely quit DE. May suggest, however, that in stead of making a youtube video where you burn your collection and sob in the background, sell it on ebay. I'm holding out for 9th ed. We are sooo going to get buffed in 9th.


Last edited by Scrz on Wed May 31 2017, 11:44; edited 1 time in total
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Dark Elf Dave
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PostSubject: Re: Almost Full DE rules w/ Picks   Wed May 31 2017, 11:42

THIS

2 When they are going to rebalance the game in about a year or so, they can publish a couple of pages with updated points costs and leave the data sheets as is.

I think he has hit the nail on the head here.
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Painjunky
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PostSubject: Re: Almost Full DE rules w/ Picks   Wed May 31 2017, 11:46

@Scrz wrote:
@Painjunky wrote:
Why???

Why in the name of all that is defiled and unholy in this universe did they decide NOT to put the  complete units cost, inclusive of all CC and shooting weapons AND the cost for any wargear options On the same page Question Question Question

As it is I have to go to the units page.
Then take note of all the units CC and shooting weapons.
Then take note of all the possible options.
Then flip and flip and flip to find all the relevent pts costs.
Then add them up.
Then flip back because i forgot an option.
Then flip forward again.
Then re calculate.
Then flip to the special rules and keywords sections to look up something.

Ill say it again, Why in the name of all that is defiled and unholy in this universe did they decide NOT to put the  complete units cost, inclusive of all CC and shooting weapons AND the cost for upgrades On the same page Question Question Question

I suspect that it is because

1 They want you to use their new army builder app with auto updates and probably micro-transactions.
2 When they are going to rebalance the game in about a year or so, they can publish a couple of pages with updated points costs and leave the data sheets as is.

Ahhhh, they made it needlessly complex because it will make them money/cut costs in the long run.
Thankyou! Now it makes sense. Neutral
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Squidmaster
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PostSubject: Re: Almost Full DE rules w/ Picks   Wed May 31 2017, 11:53

I like it....
Though I'm confused as to why the Raider distinguishes between Incubi and Drukhari Infantry.
Incubi ARE Drukhari Infantry.....
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Hellstrom
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PostSubject: Re: Almost Full DE rules w/ Picks   Wed May 31 2017, 11:55

They'll definitely pass the savings on to us though ..............................

.........................
.....
.

Razz
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aurynn
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PostSubject: Re: Almost Full DE rules w/ Picks   Wed May 31 2017, 12:26

Okay... has anyone else noticed the serious nerf of poison? I mean we do 30% less damage to guardsmen out of cover, 50% less to meq in cover, 50% less to 3+ monsters in cover AND they have double woundpools and quite a few infantry too. The only thing we now kill better is a WK and Monster flyers.

Hellions... 2 damage weapon with no AP? Whats the point? Hunting flyers?

Reavers... I am glad I held off their purchase.

Dissies costing 30 while being worse than DL on almost anything of relevance?

Incubi 3A with weaker weapons... cool but they will get munched by anything that charges them as we are not fast enough to get that T1 charge compared to other armies.

The loss of ini hurt us terribadly...

And so many typos...

Result: They slacked our dex again. In all that was released I havent seen so bad internal balance.
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|Meavar
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PostSubject: Re: Almost Full DE rules w/ Picks   Wed May 31 2017, 12:32

At least we all have our weapons, imperial guard has stats for weapons they don't have, but forgot to mention they have the option of buying/ automatically having it on their datasheet.
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Scrz
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PostSubject: Re: Almost Full DE rules w/ Picks   Wed May 31 2017, 12:34

@Painjunky wrote:


Ahhhh, they made it needlessly complex because it will make them money/cut costs in the long run.
Thankyou! Now it makes sense. Neutral

Well that is what they say the reason is. That, and making it easier for them to create a better, more balanced and living game. All the while saving the rainforest and making it cheaper for us to get our hands on more frequently updated rules.
To which I say: Nice propaganda there, tree hugging-GW! My convenience takes precedence! jocolor  

@Squidmaster wrote:
I like it....
Though I'm confused as to why the Raider distinguishes between Incubi and Drukhari Infantry.
Incubi ARE Drukhari Infantry.....

I thought it could have been because they would use the same datasheet for the Ynnari factions since they probably lose the Drukhari keyword. But that would not be good news for Ynnari wyches.

What is even stranger is that hellions are Drukhari infantry. Can they ride in a venom now?


@The Red King wrote:
I can't see any reason to ever use a razorwing flock or ur-ghoul.

I mean they took away rending and gave them nothing to represent what are supposed to be RAZOR wings.
I know it's a little early and I'm still excited to figure this new edition out (even if I may eventually not like the answer) but I am hoping betray plans to do another buff/nerf summary like last book.

A unit of 12 flocks costs 80ish pts. has 48 wounds and gets 96 attacks. Might be OK?
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SERAFF
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PostSubject: Re: Almost Full DE rules w/ Picks   Wed May 31 2017, 12:43

Guys.

Windrider with scatterlaser costs 35 points per model.

That's everything you should know about new rules. Still wanna play 8th ed? Me not.

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Painjunky
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PostSubject: Re: Almost Full DE rules w/ Picks   Wed May 31 2017, 12:52

@Scrz wrote:
@Painjunky wrote:


Ahhhh, they made it needlessly complex because it will make them money/cut costs in the long run.
Thankyou! Now it makes sense. Neutral

Well that is what they say the reason is. That, and making it easier for them to create a better, more balanced and living game. All the while saving the rainforest and making it cheaper for us to get our hands on more frequently updated rules.
To which I say: Nice propaganda there, tree hugging-GW! My convenience takes precedence! :joker

What a load of latte sipping, vegan, bleeding heart, hipster try hard crap!
GW is so concerned with the environment while they churn out plastic from third world factories by the metric ton. Laughing

Just playing, don't get upset. Smile
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Cerve
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PostSubject: Re: Almost Full DE rules w/ Picks   Wed May 31 2017, 12:53

@SERAFF wrote:
Guys.

Windrider with scatterlaser costs 35 points per model.

That's everything you should know about new rules. Still wanna play 8th ed? Me not.


Yep, but the Scatter Laser sucks now.
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Hellstrom
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PostSubject: Re: Almost Full DE rules w/ Picks   Wed May 31 2017, 12:58

@SERAFF wrote:
Guys.

Windrider with scatterlaser costs 35 points per model.

That's everything you should know about new rules. Still wanna play 8th ed? Me not.

They are FA not Troops now.  Not that that makes much difference with the new Detachments.

And they lost Relentless on Bikes. So 4's to hit.
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Dark Elf Dave
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PostSubject: Re: Almost Full DE rules w/ Picks   Wed May 31 2017, 13:00

Can someone let me know whether the rules we have seen being leaked are from the 280 page rulebook or from the index:xenos 1 book?
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