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Xivai
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PostSubject: Re: Almost Full DE rules w/ Picks   Wed May 31 2017, 07:23

@TeenageAngst wrote:
Men, I believe we have been bamboozled. Well some of us anyway.

A 1500 point list now is like 1000 points in 7e. 2000 points in 8e will be 1500 now.

They promised a 1500 point game would only take about 2 hours but this is because it's only 2/3rds the models now. This is wholesale deception!

They promised it's rules wouldn't be Age of Sigmar. Behold this foul trickery!

They promised they wouldn't blow everything up. Instead they split it in half, blew some of it up, catapulted us 200 years into the future, and changed all the fluff! The knaves!

They promised everything would have a use and be balanced. Look at my precious Warp Spiders and the Riptide! Witchcraft most foul!

I declare shenanigans! Your name is going straight into my book of grudges, Mike Blandt (do elves have books of grudges? They do now). Such duplicity I have not seen since Blizzard announced a stat crunch for WoW. Why in all my years as a dice slinging gamesman I haven't been so disappointed in a new edition since 4e D&D, but at least there I had the redemption of Players Handbook 2 and the beauty that was the Deva Barbarian!
For the Tau our typically army went up over 700 points. So speak for your damn selves. Not all of us didn't get over nerfed into oblivion.
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CommorraghPleb
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PostSubject: Re: Almost Full DE rules w/ Picks   Wed May 31 2017, 07:30

I dont like these changes at all, they've nerfed our shooting with the lack of ap on our poison and geared our army towards melee and yet I believe our melee capabilities has gotten worse comparatively with the other factions without having seen any of their units or rules yet.

Even if they didnt bring back any of our unique characters from 5th, did they have to nerf our surviving unique characters? one possible exception with Lelith whom despite losing 1-4 attacks, uncharacteristically decided to take combat drugs, probably as a result of depression seeing the 8th ed changes.
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killedbydeath
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PostSubject: Re: Almost Full DE rules w/ Picks   Wed May 31 2017, 07:37

I am sorry guys.... but stop bitching about a game you never played.  This is more like aos than 7 edition 40k.
Yes a splinter cannon is not 6 shots but we still have poison on all splinter weapons. And that is great in a new edition where high toughness is a keyword.  Plus we can wound vehicle now (6's).
A rhino is 70 points now and a knight titan is 500+ so looking at points makes no sense until we have the whole picture. Many units points is also without weapons in the other army books.
I am seeing that assault is back and units that never see the table will be played again and who knows what is missing.
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Creeping Darkness
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PostSubject: Re: Almost Full DE rules w/ Picks   Wed May 31 2017, 07:54

Personally, I'm still pumped for 8th ed. I think it promises to be a better game, and our favorite evil space elves will be much better placed on the pecking order.

Sure, there are always some points that seem like they'll be worse (say, no deep strike on raiders/venoms - about the only good point from the 7ed codex), but on the whole I still think we're in a good place.

Bring it on!
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wormfromhell
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PostSubject: Re: Almost Full DE rules w/ Picks   Wed May 31 2017, 08:00

I damn hope that our skimmers get a turbo boost, otherwise they'll be suuuppperrr slow. I dot think they will unless reavers do too but they've already got their 8 inch advance thing. splinter cannons suck now. but hey hekatrii look goos so whoopeee

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mynamelegend
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PostSubject: Re: Almost Full DE rules w/ Picks   Wed May 31 2017, 08:06

Dark Eldar have an atrocious lack of buff synergy.

Scourges and possibly Mandrakes have literally no ability to get buffs from characters at all. Not a single model in our entire codex can get two character buffs at the same time.
Compare the Blood Angels leak, where I counted Death Company models able to get something like ten simultaneous buffs if you were so inclined. +1 to hit, re-roll hits, +1 strength, +1 attack, ignore morale, 4++? No problem, just get enough dudes in range to provide those things.
For us? Hope you really enjoy going from Ld8 to Ld9.

That aside...
Talos having nothing but AP0 Damage 1 and AP-1 Damage 2 melee weapons is... curious.
Haywire got a really massive nerf, with average effectiveness reduced to just above one sixth of what it was back in 7th.
EDIT: I ran the numbers, it's really closer to one third.
Heat Lances are fairly pointless, since they'll wound essentially everything you wanna aim them at on a 5+. To add insult to injury, they're insanely overcosted.
Our HQs can't stand up to anything unless they're named, and their buffs are so pointless you'll forget they even existed. And they don't stack with anything anyway.
Grotesques are, as far as I can tell, literally the only multi-wound unit we've seen so far to not receive the extra wounds required to survive in today's d6-damage world.
I literally can't tell the point of any models in the Court of the Archon, except perhaps the Medusae.

I was actually really positive when I saw the BA and Tau leaks and the focus on synergistic buff play. Heck, I've been positive all through 8th edition. But this? This bodes... poorly.


Last edited by mynamelegend on Wed May 31 2017, 08:17; edited 1 time in total
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Xivai
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PostSubject: Re: Almost Full DE rules w/ Picks   Wed May 31 2017, 08:08

Behold your new Imperial master race factions. I don't think Xenos are going to fare very well this edition. I've seen tons of necrons complain about their stuff going way up in price relative to older editions. Not the 8th edition point hike that's happening, but even compared to this they went up a lot more than a typical army did.

If they have no problem hading firepower like this out to the IG then why was the Stormsurge so impossible to allow double fire on its guns? As it is now our super heavy is going to get owned. I can only imagine what poor DE are going to have to do. With bubble wrap it's going to be hard to get near the baneblade.

http://i.imgur.com/U4MPJ1h.jpg
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Razorfate
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PostSubject: Re: Almost Full DE rules w/ Picks   Wed May 31 2017, 08:14

My pleasure:

http://www.3plusplus.net/2017/05/dark-eldar-drukhari-8th-edition-leaks/

We can choose the combat drugs but each unit must choose a different one (+1 str for wyches, +1 attack for hellions leaps to my mind)
Hellions have hit n run, can charge fater retreat.
+1 to hit is only for fight phase:( but still better than ever:))


Last edited by Razorfate on Wed May 31 2017, 08:37; edited 1 time in total
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Arani
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PostSubject: Re: Almost Full DE rules w/ Picks   Wed May 31 2017, 08:35

Honestly we'll just have to see how it all goes.

Like many of you, I've been both dreading and desperately looking forward to this new edition. And with every leak and update it feels almost impossible to make heads or tails of it all.

Surely there's much more to all of this than we see. Otherwise a lot of what they've put out is just flat out, wrong.

During the "Druhkari" faction focus, the writer mentioned that DE vehicles are supposed to be "blisteringly fast".

With that in mind, unless I'm missing something (which is very much possible and probably more likely than not) our Raiders are pretty pathetic speed wise compared to where they were in 7th Ed.

From what I've seen of the leaks, they start off with a 14" move, which is cool, two extra inches goes a long way (dick jokes welcomed). But then from what else I've read, all units also have the opportunity to "advance" in the movement phase, in which you roll a d6 and add it to your movement, giving us a grand possible movement of 20" (assuming you roll a 6).

Has anyone else seen anything about advancing for vehicles or models with the "fly" keyword?


Furthermore, with the newest leaks, does it look like it's just as hard to shoot Mandrakes (-1 for enemies to hit) as it is for shoot down flyers? (Also a sad -1 for enemies to hit). Because if that's all there is.. wow.

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Razorfate
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PostSubject: Re: Almost Full DE rules w/ Picks   Wed May 31 2017, 08:41

Voidraven advanes 20"
Reavers advance 8" for a total of 24".

We are very fast compared to other armies which is what counts as. It is a diferent game now.
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Olsol
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PostSubject: Re: Almost Full DE rules w/ Picks   Wed May 31 2017, 08:55



points for the new dark elder units + wargear
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Dark Elf Dave
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PostSubject: Re: Almost Full DE rules w/ Picks   Wed May 31 2017, 09:02

I can't see why people are suggesting they have increased the points.  They haven't increased the points on all units.  Infantry now cost less points, vehicles cost more points.  This is because GW decided vehicles were too easy to kill in 7th and they have all received a benefit by going to wounds...this has been math hammered enough times so I hope we can agree on that at least.

GW released an example DE army yesterday that actually came in 7 points cheaper than if you built it in 7th edition.  Surely that proves that the points have not been greatly increased.  If however, you choose to run a lot of vehicles over infantry then yes the points will go up because they all just became harder to kill.

I agree that we don't get many buffs from our HQ choices but we automatically get PFP buffs accumulating each turn.  So what if BA can buff Death Company 10 times...shoot them all!  Have you even looked at the points cost it would take to do that for BA?

Heat Lances are going to go straight onto my Reavers!  Reavers have taken a massive nerf when compared to their usual role in 7th but I now see these guys as perfect Space Marine HQ killers...heat lances wounding on 3+ reducing them to invul saves causing D6 damage.  Having the extra wound on the bikes means they should be more survivable.

The game will mostly stay the same.  There are going to be obvious changes and we need to look at the list and see how we adapt to those changes.

What we were told is that units rarely seen in the game would find a place.  I can see there being a battlefield role for all of our units.
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Vathek
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PostSubject: Re: Almost Full DE rules w/ Picks   Wed May 31 2017, 09:33

Am I reading this right. Models with fly keyword can charge planes?
Cos I am quite fond the idea of my Hellion Flock swarming some tau flyer.
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Count Adhemar
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PostSubject: Re: Almost Full DE rules w/ Picks   Wed May 31 2017, 09:38

Strangely enough, in my 7e homebrew codex, attacking flyers was the role that I chose for Hellions as they didn't really seem to have any other role. If only GW had nicked the rest of my codex instead of putting out this monstrosity!

List of things I was excited to try when reading this codex:












Erm...?

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TheBaconPope
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PostSubject: Re: Almost Full DE rules w/ Picks   Wed May 31 2017, 09:43

Quote :
Strangely enough, in my 7e homebrew codex, attacking flyers was the role that I chose for Hellions as they didn't really seem to have any other role. If only GW had nicked the rest of my codex instead of putting out this monstrosity!

List of things I was excited to try when reading this codex:












Erm...?

Uh, hmm. Well maybe..no..not quite.

I'm sure we can think of something if we all put our heads to it..

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closecraig
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PostSubject: Re: Almost Full DE rules w/ Picks   Wed May 31 2017, 09:51

The image for combat drugs sucks, do we have a list of all the drugs?
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Painjunky
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PostSubject: Re: Almost Full DE rules w/ Picks   Wed May 31 2017, 10:01

Why???

Why in the name of all that is defiled and unholy in this universe did they decide NOT to put the  complete units cost, inclusive of all CC and shooting weapons AND the cost for any wargear options On the same page Question Question Question

As it is I have to go to the units page.
Then take note of all the units CC and shooting weapons.
Then take note of all the possible options.
Then flip and flip and flip to find all the relevent pts costs.
Then add them up.
Then flip back because i forgot an option.
Then flip forward again.
Then re calculate.
Then flip to the special rules and keywords sections to look up something.

Ill say it again, Why in the name of all that is defiled and unholy in this universe did they decide NOT to put the  complete units cost, inclusive of all CC and shooting weapons AND the cost for upgrades On the same page Question Question Question
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Cavash
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PostSubject: Re: Almost Full DE rules w/ Picks   Wed May 31 2017, 10:10

Oooh the saltiness amuses me. I am going to wait until I have a few games under my belt before I make up my mind in all this. Even then I will be waiting until the proper codex comes out. I am still hopeful for this edition and it has actually encouraged me to play for the first time since 6th ed.

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Count Adhemar
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PostSubject: Re: Almost Full DE rules w/ Picks   Wed May 31 2017, 10:12

LOL Razorwing Flocks have a 7+ save!

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Trystis
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PostSubject: Re: Almost Full DE rules w/ Picks   Wed May 31 2017, 10:13

@Cavash wrote:
Oooh the saltiness amuses me. I am going to wait until I have a few games under my belt before I make up my mind in all this. Even then I will be waiting until the proper codex comes out. I am still hopeful for this edition and it has actually encouraged me to play for the first time since 6th ed.

You're being far to logical for this thread. I'm afraid you will have to leave...
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Cavash
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PostSubject: Re: Almost Full DE rules w/ Picks   Wed May 31 2017, 10:17

@Trystis wrote:
@Cavash wrote:
Oooh the saltiness amuses me. I am going to wait until I have a few games under my belt before I make up my mind in all this. Even then I will be waiting until the proper codex comes out. I am still hopeful for this edition and it has actually encouraged me to play for the first time since 6th ed.

You're being far to logical for this thread. I'm afraid you will have to leave...

Oh... my bad... forgot a new edition was about to be released. Silly Eldar heightened emotions...

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Painjunky
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PostSubject: Re: Almost Full DE rules w/ Picks   Wed May 31 2017, 10:17

@Count Adhemar wrote:
LOL Razorwing Flocks have a 7+ save!

I noticed that too. Shocked

Auto-fail?
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Maraxus
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PostSubject: Re: Almost Full DE rules w/ Picks   Wed May 31 2017, 10:18

well. reavers are dead now.

To explain why i think so:
- reavers are now 30 pts per model ( https://www.instagram.com/p/BUvgIF9g4rd/ )
- they don't have jink anymore (it still exists but is now a more specific special rule, see Dark Angels Leak: https://www.instagram.com/p/BUu0qG5A9ba/ )
- their special equipment now sucks (their new role seems to be tying up enemies just like wyches, but they don't have the numbers nor the durability) (Grav Talons are now what Cluster Caltrops used to be, to an extent, but much weaker)

But on the bright side, hooray poison. At least with Poison, combat drugs, and power from pain still being there, they left the identity of DE intact. And Grotesques didn't get stuck with lousy LD like i feared. Agreed with TeenageAngst on the other hand that mixing the different sub-factions now seems ill-advised, at least when it comes to characters.

All in all, i find the new dex for 8th interesting. Can't yet tell if it'll be a good one or bad, since we can't quite compare DE to other armies yet (other than mathhammer, but that only works when you have ALL the info available. which we don't). I can say however that i like the reduced point costs for wyches and kabs.

P.S.: Wasn't there somewhere a rumour summary that pretty much included everything we have now, with full accuracy other than a mistranslation?

P.P.S.: And if i understand correctly, everything now calculates it's total cost from number of models AND equipment per model, even if it's standard loadout? As in, a Ravager costs at least 155 pts, 95 plus 3 times 20 for lances?
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CurstAlchemist
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PostSubject: Re: Almost Full DE rules w/ Picks   Wed May 31 2017, 10:20

I think the 7+ save is so that those more mentally challenged players don't get confused when adding to the armor save when in cover, so a 7+ becomes a 6+ and if shot by an AP - weapon they get to roll a 6+ save.
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Creeping Darkness
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PostSubject: Re: Almost Full DE rules w/ Picks   Wed May 31 2017, 10:31

On the bright side, a Razorwing can finally shoot it's missiles at other planes!

(Although I think Hellions actually will do a better job of killing planes than our dedicated fighter, haha!)
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