HomeDark Eldar WikiDark Eldar ResourcesNull CityFAQUsergroupsRegisterLog in
Share | 
 

 Voidraven Bomber in 8th Edition

View previous topic View next topic Go down 
Go to page : Previous  1, 2
AuthorMessage
The Red King
Hekatrix
avatar

Posts : 1101
Join date : 2013-07-09

PostSubject: Re: Voidraven Bomber in 8th Edition   3/6/2017, 16:03

I can't really read the different colors but I will say my much less accurate head math led me to the similar conclusion that void lances are pointless.

_________________
For Khaela Mensha Khaine!
Back to top Go down
Faitherun
Kabalite Warrior
avatar

Posts : 109
Join date : 2017-02-13

PostSubject: Re: Voidraven Bomber in 8th Edition   3/6/2017, 16:07

@The Red King wrote:
I can't really read the different colors but I will say my much less accurate head math led me to the similar conclusion that void lances are pointless.

Removed the colors for ya
Back to top Go down
The Strange Dark One
Sybarite
avatar

Posts : 344
Join date : 2014-08-22

PostSubject: Re: Voidraven Bomber in 8th Edition   3/6/2017, 16:15

I agree, Void Lances seem a bit underwhealming. I think we have yet to find out the most efficient way to get rid of vehicles, but the Voidraven seems more of a heavy anti-personal weapon.

Scythes should also proof fairly reliable against the aforementioned bikes.

Personally, I see the Scythes more as a stronger form of the Disintegrator Cannon with less shots.
Wounds T4 on a 2+, has AP-4 and is still fairly reliable against higher thoughness enemies.

_________________
Discontinued: Dark Eldar 7th Codex Redux
A pragmatic custom codex for pragmatic realspace raiders.
Back to top Go down
The Red King
Hekatrix
avatar

Posts : 1101
Join date : 2013-07-09

PostSubject: Re: Voidraven Bomber in 8th Edition   3/6/2017, 16:18

I think of the void scythes as a battery of blasters.

The equivalent of 2-6 blasterborn attached to your flyer.

_________________
For Khaela Mensha Khaine!
Back to top Go down
Demantiae
Sybarite
avatar

Posts : 258
Join date : 2015-01-07

PostSubject: Re: Voidraven Bomber in 8th Edition   4/6/2017, 12:06

Void Lances are all but pointless. Identical to Dark Lances except they wound T8 on a 3+ instead of 4+. That's a 16.6% boost in strength, hardly anything to boast about. I haven't got the costs in front of me right now but how much more do they cost over a DL? GW did an ok job with the void raven (mostly by reducing its cost and the inherent boost all vehicles got) but they fell short with its weapons. The Void Lance should be S10 so it can wound T5 on 2's or it should have -5 rend, or perhaps 2d6 damage. Or something else that sets it apart from Dark Lances and shows it's superiority. As it stands it's a fraction better vs land raiders and some monsters, that's it. Void Bomb is weird too. It's great vs infantry but it barely scratches vehicles. The fluff puts this thing on a similar level to the old D weaponry. It should ado more damage to vehicles and particularly to those with the titanic keyword (or whatever the super heavy / knight descriptor is). The way the Raven is now you're taking the scythes and shooting and bombing heavy infantry, never vehicles. Seems odd the DE would need more weapons to slay infantry when they have trouble with proper super heavy stuff. Void Raven should be the DE answer to this big stuff, nuking and crippling it in one precision strike.

_________________
------------------------------
The Bone Flower
------------------------------
Back to top Go down
Faitherun
Kabalite Warrior
avatar

Posts : 109
Join date : 2017-02-13

PostSubject: Re: Voidraven Bomber in 8th Edition   4/6/2017, 14:10

The Void lances (And Scythes) are included in the cost of the Raven.

TBH, I believe most all bombers are designed to take out infantry. For me, I am most excited for using one of these as part of a flyer wing, and then using the re-arm and re-fuel command point. Lets you regen wounds and get your bomb back. Dropping that bomb on infantry twice in a game will be fun

As for taking on big things, I don't belive we will have as much trouble with that. We can quite reliably spam Dark lances. 2 squads of 5 warriors with a DL each is 110 pts. Compared to 100 pts it used to be.. not bad at all. Especially since DL have gotten better!

Chuck them in a raider (115 pts) and you have a mini ravager, albiet with worse shooting. Or just take a DL ravager (155pts).

So at quick Math - 3x Ravager + 2 warriors with DL and DL raider = 690 pts. That is 12 DL. Perhaps no the best units etc but still pretty easy to get a good number of lances in
Back to top Go down
The Strange Dark One
Sybarite
avatar

Posts : 344
Join date : 2014-08-22

PostSubject: Re: Voidraven Bomber in 8th Edition   4/6/2017, 14:50

I think the Voidraven offers great shock-value with it's bomb. To imagine a whole squad of 2+ MEQ being vaporized to 1/3 of its size is just amazing.

But it's also its greatest downfall. Without an appropriate target that has both, high saves and high number count the bomb will just not make its cost back.


It (169pts) is priced neetly between a Dark Lance Ravager (155pts) and Disintegrator Ravager (185) and has to be compared to them as such.
In terms of shooting 3 DL for less costs is a far better deal than the shooting of a Voidraven, making the Ravager a safer and more reliable pick in general.

Speaking of the Ravager, Disintegrator Cannons are amazing, but also cost 50% more. Dissies outperform Lances most the time, but are only more cost effective on targets with T5 or less.


I am very reluctant when it comes to adding missiles to the Voidraven. Both missiles are much worse than a Lance and cost more on top of it.

It really amuses me that the Voidraven Bomber still has worse Missiles than the Razorwing.
Implosion Missiles really suck: Only S6, D3 shots and 1 damage. And the Necrotoxin Missiles look extremely tempting: 2+ to wound and 6 shots per turn.

And the Razorwing only costs as much as a Lance Ravager.


Looking at this, it is clear that the Voidraven will be among the more meta-dependant units in our codex. However, I don't think this is a bad thing.
Even-though it disappoints me that it doesnt bring more heavy shooting.

_________________
Discontinued: Dark Eldar 7th Codex Redux
A pragmatic custom codex for pragmatic realspace raiders.
Back to top Go down
CptMetal
Trueborn
avatar

Posts : 2554
Join date : 2015-03-03
Location : Ruhr Metropolian Area

PostSubject: Re: Voidraven Bomber in 8th Edition   4/6/2017, 15:23

You can't take a Lance in a 5 dude squad. Only if it's a true born squad.
Sorry to burst your bubble. It would be awesome if we could do that!

_________________
+++++INCOMING TRANSMISSION+++++
The Dark Eldar Codex sucks. You probably won just because your enemy loaded his dice to loose. Never forget this mantra and spread the word. Mention it in every discussion possible, people can´t get enough of that valuable information and need to be reminded regularely.
+++++END OF TRANSMISSION+++++
http://www.thedarkcity.net/t12720-tainted-reborn
Back to top Go down
Faitherun
Kabalite Warrior
avatar

Posts : 109
Join date : 2017-02-13

PostSubject: Re: Voidraven Bomber in 8th Edition   4/6/2017, 15:30

@CptMetal wrote:
You can't take a Lance in a 5 dude squad. Only if it's a true born squad.
Sorry to burst your bubble. It would be awesome if we could do that!

ah, you are right - could take a blaster though for 5 pts less...
Back to top Go down
Demantiae
Sybarite
avatar

Posts : 258
Join date : 2015-01-07

PostSubject: Re: Voidraven Bomber in 8th Edition   4/6/2017, 18:48

5 man trueborn can take two lances though. 2 Squads in a raider is 5 shots. But Ravagers will always be more cost effective.

The Frontline guys were saying that it's now worthwhile taking 10 man squads of termies, though we'll see if that's true soon enough. If that does become common then Void Ravens are going to be in every DE list!

don't know about that refuelling thing, haven't looked it up but it sounds freekin great for the VR.

_________________
------------------------------
The Bone Flower
------------------------------
Back to top Go down
CptMetal
Trueborn
avatar

Posts : 2554
Join date : 2015-03-03
Location : Ruhr Metropolian Area

PostSubject: Re: Voidraven Bomber in 8th Edition   4/6/2017, 18:54

I´m not so sure about that. Those guys have 2 wounds.

_________________
+++++INCOMING TRANSMISSION+++++
The Dark Eldar Codex sucks. You probably won just because your enemy loaded his dice to loose. Never forget this mantra and spread the word. Mention it in every discussion possible, people can´t get enough of that valuable information and need to be reminded regularely.
+++++END OF TRANSMISSION+++++
http://www.thedarkcity.net/t12720-tainted-reborn
Back to top Go down
Toffeehammer
Hellion
avatar

Posts : 29
Join date : 2015-11-08

PostSubject: Re: Voidraven Bomber in 8th Edition   6/6/2017, 03:16

So I guess it looks like the Voidraven is outperforming the Razorwing for now? Dang, my list of models to buy this edition is getting pricier and pricier.
Back to top Go down
Manfried
Slave
avatar

Posts : 1
Join date : 2017-06-06

PostSubject: Re: Voidraven Bomber in 8th Edition   6/6/2017, 05:14

@Faitherun wrote:


Mathhammering it out a bit... I get 9.34 kills on the Scythe vs MEQ and 3.97 on the lance

That isn't how wounding works in 8th. Wounds don't spill over. That means that the d scythes will do a little over 2 MEQ kills a turn and the void lances will kill 1.
Back to top Go down
Faitherun
Kabalite Warrior
avatar

Posts : 109
Join date : 2017-02-13

PostSubject: Re: Voidraven Bomber in 8th Edition   6/6/2017, 12:34

Ah true. Had not thought of that. Will have to re do my analysis now
Back to top Go down
Kantalla
Sybarite
avatar

Posts : 369
Join date : 2015-12-21

PostSubject: Re: Voidraven Bomber in 8th Edition   6/6/2017, 13:31

Mortal wounds do spill over though, just to add to the complication.

_________________
From a midnight sky, there is a searing flash, a boom, a brief moment of destruction, and then it is gone.
Kabal of Lightning Strikes - Project Log
Back to top Go down
SCP Yeeman
Sybarite


Posts : 265
Join date : 2013-04-17

PostSubject: Re: Voidraven Bomber in 8th Edition   6/6/2017, 16:53

Can someone clarify the bomb for me. I was speaking with someone (who had looked at the rules for longer than 5 seconds) and was mentioning how I believe the Void Bomb is very good. Up to 10 wounds on infantry models dealing mortal wounds on a 3+ then (I believe I read it correctly) that if I choose a vehicle or monster it is 3D6 mortal wounds on a 3+ to them. However, the individual I was talking with said that it is only 3 total dice against vehicles or monsters instead of 3D6 wounds.

Can someone clarify for me?
Back to top Go down
Count Adhemar
Dark Lord of Granbretan
avatar

Posts : 6444
Join date : 2012-04-26
Location : London

PostSubject: Re: Voidraven Bomber in 8th Edition   6/6/2017, 17:13

You pick a unit the bomber flew over. Roll 3d6 for each monster or vehicle in that unit or 1d6 for each other model in that unit (max 10d6). For each 3+ you roll, the unit suffers a mortal wound.

_________________

You have been weighed, you have been measured, and you have been found wanting. In what world could you possibly beat me?
Back to top Go down
Gobsmakked
Rumour Scourge
avatar

Posts : 3274
Join date : 2011-05-14
Location : Vancouver, BC

PostSubject: Re: Voidraven Bomber in 8th Edition   6/6/2017, 19:37

Moving to tactics.
Back to top Go down
Demantiae
Sybarite
avatar

Posts : 258
Join date : 2015-01-07

PostSubject: Re: Voidraven Bomber in 8th Edition   6/6/2017, 20:29

That 3d6 for vehicles really should be 5 or 6 d6. 3 wounds is less damage than a lance can do, on a bomb that's supposedly better than a tactical nuke.

_________________
------------------------------
The Bone Flower
------------------------------
Back to top Go down
Faitherun
Kabalite Warrior
avatar

Posts : 109
Join date : 2017-02-13

PostSubject: Re: Voidraven Bomber in 8th Edition   6/6/2017, 21:00

That is 3d6 hits if I understand correctly. So 3-18 hits which on a 3+ do a mortal wound
Back to top Go down
Logan Frost
Sybarite
avatar

Posts : 314
Join date : 2016-01-25

PostSubject: Re: Voidraven Bomber in 8th Edition   6/6/2017, 21:22

Nope, you roll 3d6 and every 3+ is a mortal wound.
If it was the number of hits a 10 man squad would take up to 60 mortal wound, a bit overkill to me.
Back to top Go down
CptMetal
Trueborn
avatar

Posts : 2554
Join date : 2015-03-03
Location : Ruhr Metropolian Area

PostSubject: Re: Voidraven Bomber in 8th Edition   6/6/2017, 21:24

Sadly not. It only says
"After the VR has moved, pick one enemy unit that it flew over. Then, roll three D6 for each vehicle or monster in the unit or one D6 for every other model in the unit, up to a max. of 10 D6."
Meaning if you´d habe a unit consisting of 5 infantry and one monster you´d throw 8D6.

"For each roll of 3+, the unit being bombed suffers a mortal wound."

So for example that unit would get about 6 mortal wounds. And if you fly over a lone vehicle, you´d do two mortal wounds on average.

Nothing to write home about. Better use it for heavy infantry.

_________________
+++++INCOMING TRANSMISSION+++++
The Dark Eldar Codex sucks. You probably won just because your enemy loaded his dice to loose. Never forget this mantra and spread the word. Mention it in every discussion possible, people can´t get enough of that valuable information and need to be reminded regularely.
+++++END OF TRANSMISSION+++++
http://www.thedarkcity.net/t12720-tainted-reborn
Back to top Go down
amishprn86
Hekatrix
avatar

Posts : 1422
Join date : 2014-10-04
Location : Ohio

PostSubject: Re: Voidraven Bomber in 8th Edition   6/6/2017, 23:59

Yep Voidbomber is for sure better against infantry via Bomb and Dark Scythes. I personally like it.

For me Razorwings are more Survivable version of a DL Ravager, -1 DL but D6 S7 0ap, but it gets Hard to Hit, it also cant be CC unless it has Fly rule. SO the Fliers can get right up against some units and not care "as much" like Assault Marines.

Sense you can shoot in any direction now the min+max distance and having to move in squares isnt as big as a deal.

_________________
I was a Lost Boy until the Archon found me.
Back to top Go down
 
Voidraven Bomber in 8th Edition
View previous topic View next topic Back to top 
Page 2 of 2Go to page : Previous  1, 2

Permissions in this forum:You cannot reply to topics in this forum
THE DARK CITY :: 

COMMORRAGH TACTICA

 :: Dark Eldar Tactics
-
Jump to: