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 Voidraven Bomber in 8th Edition

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RolandDarkfire
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PostSubject: Voidraven Bomber in 8th Edition   Tue May 30 2017, 08:12

Being a new DE player (and new in general) most of my wants for my army are based on aesthetics. Since its a badass model, how would you guess the Voidraven Bomber will play in 8th Edition? pirat
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PostSubject: Re: Voidraven Bomber in 8th Edition   Tue May 30 2017, 09:14

Until we have the complete unit stats and the full 8e rules, there really is no way to tell at this point.
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PostSubject: Re: Voidraven Bomber in 8th Edition   Tue May 30 2017, 16:13

@Gobsmakked wrote:
Until we have the complete unit stats and the full 8e rules, there really is no way to tell at this point.

+1. I see so many people drawing drastic conclusions, "oh x is going to be op!" really to know a unit we need its complete stats and all of the other units and enough time to test them and establish a meta. until we do this, we CANNOT completely tell.
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PostSubject: Re: Voidraven Bomber in 8th Edition   Tue May 30 2017, 17:37

Do we even know how exactly flyers are going to interact with the rest of the army?

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Hen Tai, the tentacle guy
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PostSubject: Re: Voidraven Bomber in 8th Edition   Tue May 30 2017, 19:37

There seems to be hints of a cc mechanic, and it looks like they die if they leave the table.

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PostSubject: Re: Voidraven Bomber in 8th Edition   Tue May 30 2017, 21:09

Too many things to guess as to whether it will be amazing or underwhelming, but if aesthetics are one of your primary reasons to make army selections, then the Voidraven is well worth it.

I'm guessing the weapons will be fairly impressive, probably extra rend Lascannons plus the Void Mine may be a D6 hits and D6 damage. The main uncertainty is about how Flyers will work, as well as all the subtleties of what changes on the datasheet, including what points cost it has.

My suggestion is get it for the looks. I fielded one through 7th mainly for that reason.

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Faitherun
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PostSubject: Re: Voidraven Bomber in 8th Edition   Wed May 31 2017, 02:19

Well we have a few ideas from the tau leaks. - 3 mod to hit them maybe (I'm. Hoping for better) . Min and max move with the supersonic rule (rotate up to 90 then move in a straight line) with changing stats over damage. 169 pts will get you the bomber stock with two void Lance's. (the tau bomber was not equipped with a bomb but had it as a special rule)

Can assault or be locked in cc but can be assaulted by things with the fly special rule.

All up I think it'd be a rather solid unit. Plus it looks sick as all hell

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PostSubject: Re: Voidraven Bomber in 8th Edition   Wed May 31 2017, 12:47

So... Does it just fly a perimeter around the battle field and shoot at things in the center? It doesn't​look like weapon facing has anything to do with line of sight.
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PostSubject: Re: Voidraven Bomber in 8th Edition   Wed May 31 2017, 22:48

With the leak on it I definitely want one now. Still wish the bomb wasn't a one use item, but it's still a lovely model and looks like it can do a good bit of damage. Plus, the flyer detachment is 3-5 flyers and I already have two razorwings and the idea of two fighters escorting a bomber is spot on
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PostSubject: Re: Voidraven Bomber in 8th Edition   Wed May 31 2017, 22:52

I have the same amount of razorwings and a voidraven, and i shall pump out poison 2+ assault 6 missiles on all the baddies on the ground (that are not vehicles). Kind of sucks that I can only shoot three at a time from each flier, but still. Thats a lot of wounds.

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PostSubject: Re: Voidraven Bomber in 8th Edition   Thu Jun 01 2017, 04:17

The bomber is nice. A squad of Terminators? Fly over them and kill 2/3 of them (if they only have 1 wound each).

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PostSubject: Re: Voidraven Bomber in 8th Edition   Thu Jun 01 2017, 05:22

Termies have two each. But you kill off a guy before it can be applied to another model, so it is still quite effective.
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PostSubject: Re: Voidraven Bomber in 8th Edition   Fri Jun 02 2017, 01:14

The bomb seems weak against vehicles but great against infantry no matter now tough they are. But the guns are great against vehicles. And it can probably just circle the table blowing up tanks with the way shooting looks to work. I like the invul save and difficulty to hit (dunno if the -1 to hit is a flyer thing or a DE thing though).

It's main job though is going to be removing termies off the table and distilling their tears into nice little shot glasses to be drunk in celebration of your glorious victory!

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Hen Tai, the tentacle guy
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PostSubject: Re: Voidraven Bomber in 8th Edition   Fri Jun 02 2017, 01:32

Missiles are only 20 points for them, so you can still fire off a third weapon after the bomb has struck.

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PostSubject: Re: Voidraven Bomber in 8th Edition   Fri Jun 02 2017, 05:07

Quote :
(dunno if the -1 to hit is a flyer thing or a DE thing though)
.

All flyers have this rule, as far as i remember. On top of that, our flyers are the FASTEST. Razor can go 92" Smile 72" in the movement and 20" in advance Smile All hail to supersonic!!! XD
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PostSubject: Re: Voidraven Bomber in 8th Edition   Fri Jun 02 2017, 05:35

The necrotoxin missiles has a flat out 6 hits and not d6, wounding on 2+. Two birds firing three missiles a pop, equals a lot of saverolls on a WK.

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PostSubject: Re: Voidraven Bomber in 8th Edition   Fri Jun 02 2017, 06:20

Missiles are one weapon. You can only fire them once a turn. So 6 Attacks per flyer with Necrotoxin missiles. But the rest of the weapons on top (lances etc).

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PostSubject: Re: Voidraven Bomber in 8th Edition   Fri Jun 02 2017, 22:37

So all fliers are -1 to hit? This means our entire army is -1 to hit? And our planes are at -2 to hit because they have the extra -1 on their profile?

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PostSubject: Re: Voidraven Bomber in 8th Edition   Sat Jun 03 2017, 00:03

Where are you getting that fly gives you a -1 enemy to hit rolls from, I'm not seeing that mentioned anywhere (though the scattered way the rules are now it is very likely I'm missing something). As far as I can tell, only units with the keyword hard to hit have a -1 to enemy to hit.
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PostSubject: Re: Voidraven Bomber in 8th Edition   Sat Jun 03 2017, 01:40

hard to hit is a separate rule to fly

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PostSubject: Re: Voidraven Bomber in 8th Edition   Sat Jun 03 2017, 06:24

So fliers are only harder to hit if they have the specific rule on their datasheet? I haven't gone over everything in the rulebook yet, mostly the factions material.

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PostSubject: Re: Voidraven Bomber in 8th Edition   Sat Jun 03 2017, 06:35

Fly gives you right to charge airborne (flyers), move over any terrain, advance and to leave cc without penalty, it does not give you a better save, and ground units can still charge you.

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PostSubject: Re: Voidraven Bomber in 8th Edition   Sat Jun 03 2017, 22:36

I think the Voidraven will be our to-go "anti-blob" weapon. It excels most against big squads of high-save units. Drop it on a 10man squad of marines which are in cover (and normally have a 2+ save) and kill about 6-7 of them.

And since transports are more expensive I can see bigger squads becoming much more common.

To make the wording on the Void Mine easier to understand: Each model in the targeted unit has a 66% chance of receiving a mortal wound. That's just brutal.

The Dark Scythes also look great as an anti-TEQ weapon.
The missiles also look solid, but I will need to do some mathhammer to see if they are worth it.

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PostSubject: Re: Voidraven Bomber in 8th Edition   Sat Jun 03 2017, 23:05

Too bad that the bomb isn't useful against multiple Wound units. But stuff like bikes can be killed with that or old school terminators.
And keep in mind if you kill 2/3 of the squad, the rest probably dies during the morale phase!!

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PostSubject: Re: Voidraven Bomber in 8th Edition   Sat Jun 03 2017, 23:59

Ok... really looking now at the comparison of the Void Lances to the Dark Scythes

Scythe is -12" (as if that matters on this beast?), -1 str, and same AP Mod. Its d3 hits vs 1 and does d3 wounds vs d6

Str wise I don't see there is any difference. VS MEQ both wound on a 2+. Up till T 8, both are wounding on a 3+....

So at T 8 and 9 the Lance is slightly better at wounding but from T 10 to 15 they are the same again...

Now, looking through what I have, I don't see anything above T 10... Knights are T 8. Most things seem to fall in the 3 - 8 range.

So, what we are really looking at is 2d3 hits with 2d3 wounds vs 2 hits at d6 wounds... Oh an points wise, they are the exact same.

Mathhammering it out a bit... I get 9.34 kills on the Scythe vs MEQ and 3.97 on the lance

I do believe the Scythe may be the way to go!

Maths and such:
 

Please feel free to let me know where my math is wrong Smile


Last edited by Faitherun on Sun Jun 04 2017, 00:07; edited 1 time in total
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